# Diogenes, go take a nap **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306 "2010-09-19T17:42:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/181 "2010-09-20T17:30:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I just don’t see an inability to reproduce as being a “disability” the way that word is typically use and understood. > > That is not to say that the CAUSE of infertility can’t be disabling, painful, etc., but I still maintain that the infertilty is a _symptom_ in those cases, not a disability in itself. It may not be popular to say it, but I don’t think it’s any big tragedy if someone can’t get pregnant, and I don’t think it’s an urgent medical need to get fertility treatments (or for guys to get erections). > > Popular or not, that’s my opinion and I’m not going to change it. I don’t think that not being able to get pregnant is on a par with dying of cancer. Sorry. Adopt. This, if it had been posted first, would be substantially less jerkish than what you have actually heretofore posted on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/182 "2010-09-20T17:34:09Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I just don’t see an inability to reproduce as being a “disability” the way that word is typically use and understood. > > > > That is not to say that the CAUSE of infertility can’t be disabling, painful, etc., but I still maintain that the infertilty is a _symptom_ in those cases, not a disability in itself. It may not be popular to say it, but I don’t think it’s any big tragedy if someone can’t get pregnant, and I don’t think it’s an urgent medical need to get fertility treatments (or for guys to get erections). > > > > Popular or not, that’s my opinion and I’m not going to change it. I don’t think that not being able to get pregnant is on a par with dying of cancer. Sorry. Adopt. > > This, if it had been posted first, would be substantially less jerkish than what you have actually heretofore posted on the topic. In my opinion… I’ve not read the original thread on this topic, but what he’s posted to this point in this thread is entirely consistent with his summary statement here. So you’ll perhaps understand when people point to this as evidence of his being a smug jerk and the cause of their outrage, and the “Dio Show” and all this flies over my head. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/183 "2010-09-20T17:34:49Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > He can be cruel and a jerk (and IMO, increasingly is both of late) without “making” people do anything. I’m not suggesting that people who respond to him, including myself, can’t control ourselves. I’m merely suggesting that it’s not our fault that he’s a giant asshole. Let’s say he is. But if he is, he’s not going to change, and all the other posters in the world won’t make him. People seem to be angry and frustrated with his behavior, but they keep replying to him over and over again. It’s like watching someone stab themselves with a needle and then complain about how much pain they’re in. If you like stabbing yourself with a needle, stab away. No skin off my back. But if it’s painful, why not stop? For the record, I think Dio can be an incisive poster when his buttons aren’t pushed. I think I’ve responded to him from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/184 "2010-09-20T17:35:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Popular or not, that’s my opinion and I’m not going to change it. I don’t think that not being able to get pregnant is on a par with dying of cancer. Sorry. Adopt. And this is a defensible opinion. Too bad you derail your own opinion with jerkish one-liners and the occaisional stupid statements (“If the law says something then the law is stupid and I’m still right”) or foolish easily refuted assertions ( “If it’s a disability, why can’t they get a parking sticker”) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/185 "2010-09-20T17:37:55Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > [@Zeriel](#): > > > > This, if it had been posted first, would be substantially less jerkish than what you have actually heretofore posted on the topic. > > In my opinion… > > I’ve not read the original thread on this topic, but what he’s posted to this point in this thread is entirely consistent with his summary statement here. So you’ll perhaps understand when people point to this as evidence of his being a smug jerk and the cause of their outrage, and the “Dio Show” and all this flies over my head. No, what he’s posted here, among other things, is that fertility is not a disability. Full Stop. Only after he has been shown over and over that he’s wrong does he soften his position, and even then without explicitly conceding the point, which, is a matter of fact, not opinion. ETA: And of course he has also not recanted his ridiculous position that only health related issues are medical issues. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/186 "2010-09-20T17:38:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I just don’t see an inability to reproduce as being a “disability” the way that word is typically use and understood. > > That is not to say that the CAUSE of infertility can’t be disabling, painful, etc., but I still maintain that the infertilty is a _symptom_ in those cases, not a disability in itself. It may not be popular to say it, but I don’t think it’s any big tragedy if someone can’t get pregnant, and I don’t think it’s an urgent medical need to get fertility treatments (or for guys to get erections). > > Popular or not, that’s my opinion and I’m not going to change it. I don’t think that not being able to get pregnant is on a par with dying of cancer. Sorry. Adopt. You can’t separate out cause from effect. In the interests of fighting ignorance most infertility treatments aren’t of the super expensive IVF variety anyway. Most are small measures that aren’t very expensive like treating someone’s thyroid condition, taking metformin to combat potential diabetes from PCOS or a handful of low cost clomid tablets. The medical procedures that may be correlated with increased fertility is also used to combat the underlying medical issues such as surgery for endometriosis. FYI, no one has said infertility is comparable to cancer. But it’s not all that minor in many cases and it sure as hell isn’t pain free. You really should stop downplaying other people’s medical conditions especially when you clearly haven’t been there yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/187 "2010-09-20T17:41:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > \ So you’ll perhaps understand when people point to this as evidence of his being a smug jerk and the cause of their outrage, and the “Dio Show” and all this flies over my head. This isn’t the best example of his posting style here. A better example would be a thread where everyone is having a nice discussion, lots of back-and-forth, a little bantering, but people are having an interesting, productive discussion, and **Dio** comes in and drops a pantload of, “Oh yeah? Well, I think {insert opinion taken to 11}!” and everyone goes haring off down the DioHole. “Well,” you think, “That _was_ an interesting thread. Guess I’ll go do the laundry now.” Come to think of it, I should thank **Dio** for encouraging me to get more housework done. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/188 "2010-09-20T17:41:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You should pit **even sven** for having t make every single fucking discussion about her being in the Peace Corps. Yeah, that’d be annoying, having someone derail the threads they participate in with their own dog and pony show.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/189 "2010-09-20T17:44:13Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > [Here’s a great example of the Dio Show, from an ongoing thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=578867&page=2) > > Original topic of the thread is how much sympathy those imprisoned hikers deserve. Dio comes along and expresses the opinion (presented as fact) that the Peace Corps doesn’t carry physical risk. Someone comes along to offer her personal experiences, which contradict this opinion. Dio then goes into Crazy Dio mode, crapping on **even sven** ’s anecdotal story for no good reason, and asking people for cites about Peace Corps volunteers being kidnapped or murdered. Multiple posters oblige. Dio then says, well, really what I want to know is whether being in the Peace Corps is objectively more dangerous than living in NYC, except actually the way he presents this is that it is a known fact that being in the Peace Corps is in fact less dangerous than living in NYC. > > This is the kind of obnoxious threadshitting douchebaggery that we are talking about. Yes, I suppose everyone in the thread could have recognized early on that Dio was going to launch into Defcon Crazy, but I don’t think that’s a reasonable expectation of people posting on the SDMB. Posted by me [last month](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12791872): [T]he pattern of [ul]outrageous claim.[_]I never said that.[_]Okay, I did say that but what I really meant was something else.[_]Okay, I already dismissed that something else; what I really meant was this.[_]etc.[/ul] is certainly jerkish. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/190 "2010-09-20T17:45:26Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > You should pit **even sven** for having t make every single fucking discussion about her being in the Peace Corps. > > Yeah, that’d be annoying, having someone derail the threads they participate in with their own dog and pony show.:rolleyes: Does the pony do any tricks? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/191 "2010-09-20T17:45:56Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > If I had a nickel for every time a thread I _was_ interested in was completely ruined and trampled over by The Dio Show, I would have $8.37 exactly. Actually, if the money was being doled out in nickels, as you suggest, it would be impossible for you to have exactly $8.37, because your total would have to be divisible by 5. Happy to help. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/192 "2010-09-20T17:47:47Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > > [@Dante](#): > > > > Yeah, that’d be annoying, having someone derail the threads they participate in with their own dog and pony show.:rolleyes: > > Does the pony do any tricks? No, it’s disabled. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/193 "2010-09-20T17:49:21Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > If I had a nickel for every time a thread I _was_ interested in was completely ruined and trampled over by The Dio Show, I would have $8.37 exactly. > > Actually, if the money was being doled out in nickels, as you suggest, it would be impossible for you to have exactly $8.37, because your total would have to be divisible by 5. > > Happy to help. 🙂 [McBain Voice]These are the jokes, people.[/McB V] ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/194 "2010-09-20T17:51:30Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > If I had a nickel for every time a thread I _was_ interested in was completely ruined and trampled over by The Dio Show, I would have $8.37 exactly. > > Actually, if the money was being doled out in nickels, as you suggest, it would be impossible for you to have exactly $8.37, because your total would have to be divisible by 5. > > Happy to help. 🙂 She got two pennies from Rand Rover. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/195 "2010-09-20T17:52:32Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > > This tangent on pregnancy is a great example. If you think he’s wrong, you can try to scream and yell and use ALL CAPS until you are blue in the fingers, but he’s stating an on-topic opinion and there’s no reason you cannot control whether you choose to respond or not. > > Has it been established that posters respond because they are unable to control themselves? Of course it hasn’t. That’s what the Dio Defenders use to try to make it our fault. We’re all happily, calmly posting along because we choose to. This thread is a good example of what pisses people off about\*\* Dio\*\*. 1. He has driven it off topic. 2. He rudely states inflammatory opinions as facts. 3. He continues on and on and on. 4. A few posters finally do the work and provide actual cites he is wrong, then.. 5. Rather than providing alternate or contradicting cites he declares the cites horseshit because they do no agree with his opinion. I find particularly funny that in the “Ask the crazy settler” thread he is happy to defer to the law because it matches his opinion (in his head) but here when it doesn’t match his opinion, it’s horseshit. Gold! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/196 "2010-09-20T17:52:34Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > No, what he’s posted here, among other things, is that fertility is not a disability. Full Stop. Only after he has been shown over and over that he’s wrong does he soften his position, and even then without explicitly conceding the point, which, is a matter of fact, not opinion. He’s said the same thing all along. I happen to agree with him in the sense that I don’t see infertility as a disability in the typical connotation of the word “disabled” (e.g. “incapacitated by illness or injury; also : physically or mentally impaired in a way that substantially limits activity especially in relation to employment or education”). If you tell me that it’s been given the legal definition of disability, I’ll say fine, but it doesn’t change my opinion as to what the typical connotation of disability is. Is it okay to maintain a position that a ruling regarding whether or not something fits a category is off-base? Even if you disagree? But your post is a great example of what I see as the motivation of contesting him - getting him to knuckle under. He hasn’t agreed enough! He still maintains a position to the contrary! Get him! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/197 "2010-09-20T17:54:26Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > > Has it been established that posters respond because they are unable to control themselves? > > Of course it hasn’t. That’s what the Dio Defenders use to try to make it our fault. We’re all happily, calmly posting along because we choose to. Oooh! Now I get my own group, with capital letters and everything. The Dio Defenders! It’s us versus them. We’re calm and happy, but they blame us! Your group-thinking mentality is disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/198 "2010-09-20T17:57:18Z")
**Hentor** , the people you are responding to are simply expressing their opinions, which happen to be contrary to yours. Why are you continuing to engage them, unless you are just trying to “get them!” by forcing them to knuckle under? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/199 "2010-09-20T17:59:29Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > > No, what he’s posted here, among other things, is that fertility is not a disability. Full Stop. Only after he has been shown over and over that he’s wrong does he soften his position, and even then without explicitly conceding the point, which, is a matter of fact, not opinion. > > He’s said the same thing all along. I happen to agree with him in the sense that I don’t see infertility as a disability in the typical connotation of the word “disabled” (e.g. “incapacitated by illness or injury; also : physically or mentally impaired in a way that substantially limits activity especially in relation to employment or education”). No, he went from stating that it absolutely wasn’t to stating that in his opinion it shouldn’t be. Not the same thing. > [@](#): > > If you tell me that it’s been given the legal definition of disability, I’ll say fine, but it doesn’t change my opinion as to what the typical connotation of disability is. He was clearly referring to the legal definition. > [@](#): > > Is it okay to maintain a position that a ruling regarding whether or not something fits a category is off-base? Even if you disagree? Sure. It’s OK to maintain it, but not to claim that it doesn’t exist, or that it’s wrong simply on his say so. > [@](#): > > But your post is a great example of what I see as the motivation of contesting him - getting him to knuckle under. He hasn’t agreed enough! He still maintains a position to the contrary! Get him! If I had been responding to him, maybe. Since it was to you, I maintain you have missed the mark by a few barn doors. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/200 "2010-09-20T18:00:44Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > > Has it been established that posters respond because they are unable to control themselves? > > Of course it hasn’t. That’s what the Dio Defenders use to try to make it our fault. We’re all happily, calmly posting along because we choose to. > > This thread is a good example of what pisses people off about\*\* Dio\*\*. > > 1. He has driven it off topic. > 2. He rudely states inflammatory opinions as facts. > 3. He continues on and on and on. > 4. A few posters finally do the work and provide actual cites he is wrong, then.. > 5. Rather than providing alternate or contradicting cites he declares the cites horseshit because they do no agree with his opinion. > > I find particularly funny that in the “Ask the crazy settler” thread he is happy to defer to the law because it matches his opinion (in his head) but here when it doesn’t match his opinion, it’s horseshit. Gold! There’s a difference between having an opinion on the law and simply knowing what it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306.md?page=11)