# Diogenes, go take a nap **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306 "2010-09-19T17:42:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/321 "2010-09-21T22:37:18Z")
> [@\*sigh\* Obama is not a "racist" (and neither is Rev. Wright, really)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/234): > > It explains why black people are better at music, for instance. Wow, **Dio**. You really said that? I’m surprised. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/322 "2010-09-22T00:12:06Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > Then I decided to have a sandwich instead, and it was good. So to anyone thinking of posting here, have a sandwich. Well, I already had a sandwich, so what the hell. **Dio** , you are the Jack Chick of the SDMB. Personally, I’m surprised people give you as much of a pass as they do. Even on topics where I generally agree with you, your Chickishness is a liability to the fighting of ignorance, not an asset. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/323 "2010-09-22T00:20:50Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > He finds it [amusing to make fun of people with phobias](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6387279&postcount=148) Well, I won’t defend that. However, I’m not sure Diogenes would defend that either. Seems like in that post he says: > [@](#): > > The impulse to torture this person with cotton was out of character for me (I am usually not in the habit of that kind of behavior and I despise bullying). So, I don’t think you’ve accurately portrayed the matter by saying that he finds it amusing to make fun of people with phobias. He said it was bullying and torment, and specifically said it is not something he would typically do. Again, I agree that teasing someone who has a phobia isn’t cool, but you ought to be able to make your argument on the merits, not by misrepresentation. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/324 "2010-09-22T00:26:03Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > [@Guinastasia](#): > > > > He finds it [amusing to make fun of people with phobias](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6387279&postcount=148) > > Well, I won’t defend that. However, I’m not sure Diogenes would defend that either. Seems like in that post he says: > > > [@](#): > > > > The impulse to torture this person with cotton was out of character for me (I am usually not in the habit of that kind of behavior and I despise bullying). > > So, I don’t think you’ve accurately portrayed the matter by saying that he finds it amusing to make fun of people with phobias. He said it was bullying and torment, and specifically said it is not something he would typically do. > > Again, I agree that teasing someone who has a phobia isn’t cool, but you ought to be able to make your argument on the merits, not by misrepresentation. Oh, I think we cherry-picked that quote. Here’s the rest: > [@](#): > > After some self-examination, I think that some part of me was just really annoyed at what I considered to be a ridiculous fear and I think my behavor was my way of trying to show how silly I thought this person was being. I believe that I have a bit of the same reaction to people who freak out about having their pictures taken. I just don’t get it. Maybe it’s a failing on my part. I’m almost overly sympathetic to people who I see as legitimate victims who have been done real harm or suffer real injustice but I’m incredibly impatient and even insensitive if I think a person is being irrational or overreacting to (in my view) a petty slight of ettiquette. Justifying the behavior and the only concession is might not be cool is the line “maybe it’s a failing on my part.” Maybe it’s failing that you think you can decide what fears are legit and which are silly, and your fear falls in the silly category then all bets are off? ---
**Author:** ![Avarie537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@Avarie537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avarie537)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/325 "2010-09-22T00:34:34Z")
So, is he borderline, narcissistic, a sociopath, or some sort of combination? Have we played armchair psychiatric before? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/326 "2010-09-22T00:39:47Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Oh, I think we cherry-picked that quote. Here’s the rest:[…]Justifying the behavior and the only concession is might not be cool is the line “maybe it’s a failing on my part.” Maybe it’s failing that you think you can decide what fears are legit and which are silly, and your fear falls in the silly category then all bets are off? I agree that there’s cherry picking going on. Really, what he did sucked, but you’re simply lying that the only concession is that he said “maybe it’s a failing.” He says that, he says that it was torment and bullying, he says that he’s incredibly impatient and insensitive in his regard for these issues. The only way you can point to this as evidence that he thinks it is amusing to tease people with phobias is by cherry picking. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/327 "2010-09-22T00:41:41Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > > > Oh, I think we cherry-picked that quote. Here’s the rest:[…]Justifying the behavior and the only concession is might not be cool is the line “maybe it’s a failing on my part.” Maybe it’s failing that you think you can decide what fears are legit and which are silly, and your fear falls in the silly category then all bets are off? > > I agree that there’s cherry picking going on. Really, what he did sucked, but you’re simply lying that the only concession is that he said “maybe it’s a failing.” He says that, he says that it was torment and bullying, he says that he’s incredibly impatient and insensitive in his regard for these issues. > > The only way you can point to this as evidence that he thinks it is amusing to tease people with phobias is by cherry picking. Oh, I’m not saying he’s just doing it for the amusement factor, true. However, that is small comfort as he doesn’t seem to think it’s much of a problem on his part. So while he may not find deeply amusing, he doesn’t find it deeply troubling either. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/328 "2010-09-22T00:46:34Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Oh, I’m not saying he’s just doing it for the amusement factor, true. However, that is small comfort as he doesn’t seem to think it’s much of a problem on his part. So while he may not find deeply amusing, he doesn’t find it deeply troubling either. I think that’s a fair analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/329 "2010-09-22T01:01:48Z")
Please, that’s the only time in my life I ever teased anyone with a phobia. In fact it’s the only time I’ve ever teased anyone at all like that. It was just such a bizarre phobia, I don’t think I ever really believed she meant it. I mean, come on, she was afraid of cotton candy? really? (my thinking at the time) It’s not like I ever actually physically did anything to her. I sang the “cotton” song at her. I mimed tossing a cotton ball at her a couple of times. I followed her around offering her cotton candy. I didn’t physically touch her, and I left her alone when she really started going bananas. I am not sadistic, I am just disrespectful of stupidity, and a terror of cotton, rightly or wrongly, struck me a stupid at the time. That particular incident was 12 years ago. I was less mature 12 years ago. I wouldn’t do it now. I think I probably need to emphasize that I thought she had to be at least partly faking it or exaggerating it. Maybe that perception was erroneous, but it was really what I thought. I know that nobody else here has ever done anything in their lives that was maybe a little bit mean or immature. I wasn’t born with a full breadth of infinite understanding, compassion and maturity like the rest of you were, so I don’t expect anyone to understand. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/330 "2010-09-22T01:15:16Z")
How much could you have grown if you’re relating the story in a thread where you’re being dismissive of another person’s silly phobia? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/331 "2010-09-22T01:22:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I know that nobody else here has ever done anything in their lives that was maybe a little bit mean or immature. I wasn’t born with a full breadth of infinite understanding, compassion and maturity like the rest of you were, so I don’t expect anyone to understand. Well, don’t worry if you can’t be as kind-hearted and generous as me. Few can. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/332 "2010-09-22T01:22:59Z")
Phobias are often stupid and silly, and are often perceived by the people who suffer them as such. So, yeah, fear of cotton puffs and cotton candy is pretty silly, objectively speaking, but if she really had a phobic fear of them, the silliness is irrelevant to her reaction. Now, I’ve never actually come across anyone clinically with a fear of cotton candy. She reminds me of Little Albert, the kid from J. B. Watson’s historical example of generalization of classically conditioned fear. Diogenes, I’ve certainly done crappy and mean things to others that I regret and that I learned from. Obviously you’ve been tagged with the stink stick right now, so people aren’t likely to give you any quarter. On the other hand, you’ve in the past been inflexible in interpreting others behaviors and motivations (which I am also guilty of myself), so perhaps people are trying to extract some kind of retribution. It’s all very silly, in my opinion, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/333 "2010-09-22T01:23:46Z")
I’m still dismissive of silly phobias. I just wouldn’t deliberately tease anyone like that anymore. It doesn’t mean I can’t still think they’re being ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/334 "2010-09-22T01:25:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > How was it a swipe at his family? That one day his daughters will be attractive is a “swipe”? Isn’t it more accurate to describe it as a swipe at Dio himself and his expressed hang-ups and hypocrisies? According to my copy of Emily Post, it is bad form to use the words “Fuck” and “Daughter” in the same sentence. > [@](#): > > But I won’t belabor it. Er, sorry but you already have. (As have I, count to think of it.) > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, there was the thread where he told someone that a miscarriage was not as bad as the loss of a child. Which maybe be true, but he did so in the thread about said miscarriage. Not to be pedantic _about this 4 year old thread_, but IIRC it wasn’t a miscarriage. It was a [false pregnancy](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/05/health/05pseud.html), which is something different: there was no fetus. [1] **Malthus** - nice post. [1] That said, given that a trainwreck occurred, the situation probably could have been handled better. Then again DtC apologized for putting the comment in MPSIMS. But he continued the comment in the pit. But then again the OP in the MPSIMS took it in stride. Which female poster defended Dio on this? I think it was a marketing exec..?? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/335 "2010-09-22T01:30:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m still dismissive of silly phobias. I just wouldn’t deliberately tease anyone like that anymore. It doesn’t mean I can’t still think they’re being ridiculous. Exactly! You don’t think it’s a problem to pass judgement over what bothers other people. Empathy is what allows one person to feel another’s pain, even if we don’t feel the pain ourselves, and be compassionate While it is good you don’t actively tease, I would hazard a guess that you don’t hide your disdain as well as you think. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/336 "2010-09-22T01:34:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m still dismissive of silly phobias. I just wouldn’t deliberately tease anyone like that anymore. It doesn’t mean I can’t still think they’re being ridiculous. As a kid, I was squeemish for a while about wearing an open-necked shirt (it felt uncomfortable to have more than 1 button undone.) Odd, I know now and I knew then. Naturally my elder brother tormented me over it. Sure it was ridiculous, but what can you do? Fortunately such visceral responses were neither intense nor long-lasting for me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/337 "2010-09-22T01:34:52Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Phobias are often stupid and silly, and are often perceived by the people who suffer them as such. So, yeah, fear of cotton puffs and cotton candy is pretty silly, objectively speaking, but if she really had a phobic fear of them, the silliness is irrelevant to her reaction. > > Now, I’ve never actually come across anyone clinically with a fear of cotton candy. She reminds me of Little Albert, the kid from J. B. Watson’s historical example of generalization of classically conditioned fear. > > Diogenes, I’ve certainly done crappy and mean things to others that I regret and that I learned from. Obviously you’ve been tagged with the stink stick right now, so people aren’t likely to give you any quarter. On the other hand, you’ve in the past been inflexible in interpreting others behaviors and motivations (which I am also guilty of myself), so perhaps people are trying to extract some kind of retribution. > > It’s all very silly, in my opinion, but there it is. I aprreciate your defense of me, although I’m not sure I’m entirely deserving of all of it. I don’t know what kind of retribution they’re expecting. I’m not going to roll around and abase myself, if that’s what they’re hoping for (and they wouldn’t believe I was sincere even if I did). All I can and will do is take this latest series of pit threads under advisement (though its kind of lame for them to keep dragging out the same 5 year old threads every six months) and try to be a little more thoughtful and careful about how I post. I think my problem is more with tone than with content. There’s no point in apologizing or anything. Apologies are basically worthless (and truth be told, while I’m a little chastened by all of this, I’m not exactly tortured by remorse, just sobered), the only thing that’s going to mean anything is action, so my actions will have to speak for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/338 "2010-09-22T02:31:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think my problem is more with tone than with content. This is a major part, certainly, of the problem that many of us have with you. The other significant part of the problem is that you are prone to asserting that what’s right for you is right for everyone (ESPECIALLY, so far as I’ve noticed, in matters involving parenting and (especially female) sexuality/sexual behavior) and that anyone not acting specifically as you would is wrong, degenerate, silly, insincere, etc. At some point and on some subjects, your inability to believe that other humans might have sincere differences in opinion, feeling, and behavior from yourself is the most galling thing. Take polyamory, for instance: sure, it’s not right for you. You are concerned that people (especially women) involved in it might be victims of abuse. That’s all fine. What’s galling is bland pronouncements that ALL people involved in it fit in the little box you’ve described for us (wherein all men are immature and just looking for poon, and all women are abuse survivors with no self-esteem or agency), and ESPECIALLY those pronouncements in the face of assertions from other dopers that their personal experience and own emotions are not in accordance with your theory. When this happens, and what I refer to as “The Dio Zone”, is where you start inexplicably acting like a fundamentalist Christian of the type who asserts that all non-Christians REALLY believe in Jesus, but they follow other gods or whatever out of spite and Jesus-hate. That’s the long and the short of it–it’s not even your disdain or belligerence, it’s your stark refusal to acknowledge that dopers in disagreement with you have an accurate conception of the thoughts and feelings in their own heads. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/339 "2010-09-22T02:38:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I aprreciate your defense of me, although I’m not sure I’m entirely deserving of all of it. Hey, I’m just doing it for myself. I got to have my own group with a proper name and everything. > [@](#): > > Apologies are basically worthless (and truth be told, while I’m a little chastened by all of this, I’m not exactly tortured by remorse, just sobered), the only thing that’s going to mean anything is action, so my actions will have to speak for themselves. Just make a sig line that says “, in my opinion.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/340 "2010-09-22T02:44:50Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > According to my copy of Emily Post, it is bad form to use the words “Fuck” and “Daughter” in the same sentence. Is there a Palin exception? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306.md?page=18)