# Diogenes, go take a nap **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306 "2010-09-19T17:42:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/341 "2010-09-22T02:45:09Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > I aprreciate your defense of me, although I’m not sure I’m entirely deserving of all of it. > > Hey, I’m just doing it for myself. I got to have my own group with a proper name and everything. > > > [@](#): > > > > Apologies are basically worthless (and truth be told, while I’m a little chastened by all of this, I’m not exactly tortured by remorse, just sobered), the only thing that’s going to mean anything is action, so my actions will have to speak for themselves. > > Just make a sig line that says “, in my opinion.” Good idea. Done. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/342 "2010-09-22T03:07:50Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > For what it’s worth, **Bryan** , I laughed at your joke (and got why you made it). Must be a Canadian thing because I got it and thought it was funny, too. This thread has been comedy gold: [QUOTE=Michael Ellis] “Ass-hole”. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Giraffe] I’m pretty sure being fucking retarded counts as a disability. [/QUOTE] I was laughing for about 5 minutes from both of them, but Giraffe’s is still killing me!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/343 "2010-09-22T03:08:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > > Phobias are often stupid and silly, and are often perceived by the people who suffer them as such. So, yeah, fear of cotton puffs and cotton candy is pretty silly, objectively speaking, but if she really had a phobic fear of them, the silliness is irrelevant to her reaction. > > > > Now, I’ve never actually come across anyone clinically with a fear of cotton candy. She reminds me of Little Albert, the kid from J. B. Watson’s historical example of generalization of classically conditioned fear. > > > > Diogenes, I’ve certainly done crappy and mean things to others that I regret and that I learned from. Obviously you’ve been tagged with the stink stick right now, so people aren’t likely to give you any quarter. On the other hand, you’ve in the past been inflexible in interpreting others behaviors and motivations (which I am also guilty of myself), so perhaps people are trying to extract some kind of retribution. > > > > It’s all very silly, in my opinion, but there it is. > > I aprreciate your defense of me, although I’m not sure I’m entirely deserving of all of it. I don’t know what kind of retribution they’re expecting. I’m not going to roll around and abase myself, if that’s what they’re hoping for (and they wouldn’t believe I was sincere even if I did). All I can and will do is take this latest series of pit threads under advisement (though its kind of lame for them to keep dragging out the same 5 year old threads every six months) and try to be a little more thoughtful and careful about how I post. I think my problem is more with tone than with content. There’s no point in apologizing or anything. Apologies are basically worthless (and truth be told, while I’m a little chastened by all of this, I’m not exactly tortured by remorse, just sobered), the only thing that’s going to mean anything is action, so my actions will have to speak for themselves. I’m probably the last person you would take advice from, but here it is anyway. Just post all of your thoughts on a subject in your first post. That’s it. Don’t start with some cryptic and caustic statement and then dole out little bits of additional info as people ask you what the hell you are talking about. Just state your opinion and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/344 "2010-09-22T03:39:47Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I’m probably the last person you would take advice from, but here it is anyway. Just post all of your thoughts on a subject in your first post. That’s it. Don’t start with some cryptic and caustic statement and then dole out little bits of additional info as people ask you what the hell you are talking about. Just state your opinion and move on. Marking, I think, the fourth or fifth time I’ve agreed with ol’ **RR**. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/345 "2010-09-22T03:55:18Z")
Thing is, phobias aren’t supposed to be rational. As I mentioned, I’m ophidiophobic – I’m terrified of snakes. I can’t even look at pictures. When we were kids, my cousin C.B. used to love to chase me around with pictures of snakes. However, note the fact that I said – when we were KIDS. You did the same thing – as an adult. A picture of a snake isn’t going to hurt me, but I can’t look at them. We’ve had adults here who said that the picture of the “lotus boob” freaks them out to the point that they can’t look at it. It’s probably irrational, or “stupid”, in your eyes, but it still exists. You’re not just dismissive of “silly phobias”, though. You’re dismissive of ANYONE with a different experience. And you express those thoughts in a manner that makes you out as a total asswagon. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/346 "2010-09-22T04:39:08Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > \ > Must be a Canadian thing because I got it and thought it was funny, too.\ Beady eyes, flapping heads, and thinking **Bryan’s** funny. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/347 "2010-09-22T05:36:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > > > He takes swipes at lots of people and lots of families. > > This is a fucking lie. Is it? Every time you talk shit about someone’s medical conditions, political views, etc., you’re talking about a person. You’re so used to taking runs at people that cannot respond that you forget that you’re talking about real people. It’s a bitch when someone takes a run at you, isn’t it? Karma’s like that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/348 "2010-09-22T05:41:42Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > This is a fucking lie. > > Is it? Yes. I have never tried to bait anyone by going after their kids or family members. I’m rarely very personal at all. I don’t do that shit. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/349 "2010-09-22T05:46:15Z")
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic Because their particular disability does not interfere with their mobility. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It doesn’t interere with any other ability either, though. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Dio, > > Would you please, please, please, PLEASE just shut the fuck up? I had an operation for endometriosis several years ago. I had it because the pain was so bad I was getting up in the middle of the night in complete agony. I swear to god I found natural childbirth no big deal on some level because the cramps I felt were similar to the cramps I’ve gotten each month when I have my menstrual cycles. You have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about or the pain you’re so damned ignorantly shoving aside. > > SHUT UP! I had hopes at the beginning of this thread that Diogenes would listen, and care about others (and himself) and change. Not yet. Shit, I’m getting my hopes for people’s ability to improve themselves dashed again. Can you imagine? If I was the recipient of six pages of people telling me I was inconsiderate and insensitive, the last thing I would do is start spouting opinions that I knew were inconsiderate and insensitive. Diogenes, when people try to reason with you, and it doesn’t work, and they finally resort to saying SHUT UP, do so. If someone in the real world told you you’d hurt them, would you keep brow-beating them until they started yelling at you, or crying? Look, it really would be a good idea if you took a month off. Maybe you couldn’t spend 30 days without hurting people, and maybe you’d just find another website to annoy people on, but I’d recommend just staying off the internet and somehow getting some humility, and some empathy for other people. I did that last year, and it helped me a ton. Improved my personal relationships, too. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/350 "2010-09-22T05:50:54Z")
I haven’t hurt anybody. All I’ve done is disagree with them. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/351 "2010-09-22T05:58:42Z")
What if the things you say while doing so come across as willingly hurtful to _nearly everyone but yourself_? It’s their fault, not yours? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/352 "2010-09-22T08:57:33Z")
> [@Darth\_Nader](#): > > What if the things you say while doing so come across as willingly hurtful to _nearly everyone but yourself_? It’s their fault, not yours? Of course it is. And if they didn’t have their silly little phobias they could probably see that. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/353 "2010-09-22T10:55:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I haven’t hurt anybody. All I’ve done is disagree with them. The manner and method in which you choose to express your disagreement is hurtful. Dismissing everyone’s statements who say you are actually hurting is disrespectful. Even if it isn’t your intent, many reasonable, rational people are telling you that your actions are hurtful. You can’t say you haven’t been told. You are actively choosing to discount those opinions. Saying it’s not so doesn’t make it not so. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/354 "2010-09-22T11:51:36Z")
[quote=“IvoryTowerDenizen, post:353, topic:554306”] > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Saying it’s not so doesn’t make it not so. It’s not so. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/355 "2010-09-22T11:54:45Z")
[quote=“Autolycus, post:354, topic:554306”] > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It’s not so. Oy. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/356 "2010-09-22T11:56:18Z")
Hey Dio, you know that thing they say in grade school about “Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me?” That’s bullshit and most people learn that by about age 6. Words can and do hurt, every day, and when someone says “You’re being hurtful” and you say “no I’m not, I’m just saying stuff, I’m not like, beating you with a stick,” you are being an ass. A rude, hurtful ass, at that. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/357 "2010-09-22T12:26:28Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > I haven’t hurt anybody. All I’ve done is disagree with them. > > The manner and method in which you choose to express your disagreement is hurtful. Dismissing everyone’s statements who say you are actually hurting is disrespectful. Even if it isn’t your intent, many reasonable, rational people are telling you that your actions are hurtful. You can’t say you haven’t been told. You are actively choosing to discount those opinions. Saying it’s not so doesn’t make it not so. I’ve been giving this some thought, and I’m guessing it comes down to individual differences and to what you want an internet message board to be. So, I agree that a style like Diogenes’ is objectively dismissive and often disrespectful. I have a problem regarding it as hurtful. I think if you are being emotionally hurt by the knowledge that someone out there in the world is going to disagree with you in a curt and dismissive fashion, that’s something for you to work on changing. In other words, you ought to have a modicum of fortitude in order to participate in an open discussion board. I don’t like [[[[HUGS!!!]]]] boards. It may be why I am rarely drawn to MPSIMS. But you have to know that the world is full of people, and that some of them won’t like you. Many of them will disagree with you, and some will do so without regards to your feelings. You can’t control that, and you cannot let that cause you emotional harm. I realize that this is a matter of drawing a line based on personal preferences, and some people are more happy when there are not disagreements. I try not to be rude, and try to ensure that I respect others’ emotions, if not their opinions, but I’d rather have the latitude to dissent, even from near majority opinion, without having to cater to the most sensitive extremes of the distribution. I’d rather be able to suggest to pet owners that there is a qualitative difference between having a child and having a pet, or to others that there is a qualitative difference between cancer and infertility, or a qualitative difference between rape and being teabagged while passed out, and so on and so forth. Some people aren’t going to be happy, and if they’ve personalized the issue based on a past experience, they may feel personally attacked when I express my opinion. I’d rather be free to express that opinion nevertheless. So, in actuality I don’t think I’ve really been defending Diogenes per se (I mean, I like the guy in a general way, but we’ve probably exchanged communications via posts like our exchange here three or four times, and I’ve also been on the other side of his inflexibility and dismissal, too). I’m more defending the right to post opinions that some people might find challenging and might even perceive as hurtful. I do tend to agree with his positions, that’s true. I’m not proclaiming that people should be rude when expressing opinions, but I’d rather err on the side of not gang tackling someone if they tend to focus on other people’s feeling secondarily to addressing the subject of debate. But that’s probably because my first love for this board is the debating and discussing and arguing and so forth, and I don’t tend to look to anonymous internet posters to meet my affiliation needs. I understand that other people differ on that, and ultimately if the ethos of the board is such that expressing dissent, even dismissively, is unacceptable, that’s fine. It’s my choice to come and post here, not to force my feelings on other people. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/358 "2010-09-22T12:27:48Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Hey Dio, you know that thing they say in grade school about “Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me?” That’s bullshit and most people learn that by about age 6. Words can and do hurt, every day, and when someone says “You’re being hurtful” and you say “no I’m not, I’m just saying stuff, I’m not like, beating you with a stick,” you are being an ass. A rude, hurtful ass, at that. I think you misunderstand the purpose of the saying. It’s not bullshit, it’s an attempt to teach kids that in actuality, words cannot hurt you, if you choose not to let them. Obviously some get it and some don’t. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/359 "2010-09-22T12:57:39Z")
Of course words hurt. You admit it yourself. If they didn’t, you wouldn’t have to actively “choose” to find them unhurtful, would you? That said, I’ll admit that I don’t actually care about Dio’s rude hurtfulness nearly as much as his obnoxious threadshittery. It’s just obnoxious to see someone being told “you said something hurtful” and have him respond “no I didn’t” as though he gets to decide what other people are hurt by. In other words, you don’t have to actually leave physical bruises on someone to have hurt them. Which was my only point. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/360 "2010-09-22T13:05:21Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Of course words hurt. You admit it yourself. If they didn’t, you wouldn’t have to actively “choose” to find them unhurtful, would you? The degree to which one has to work to avoid the pain of others’ words is a matter of individual difference, and of differing dimensions. For instance, some subjects are more personally affecting. Another dimension is the personal distance from the person expressing the opinion. For instance, my wife has greater ability to hurt and to please me with her words than you do. A person on an anonymous internet board ought to be pretty far away from you on that dimension. I’d really prefer to help people establish better boundaries and better internal resources for coping, and to hold out a general standard that you can in fact build these strengths up, rather than endorsing the idea that people are bound to be the constant victims of even remote environmental slights. Calling the idea that “words can never hurt me” bullshit is a step in the wrong direction. In my opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306.md?page=19)