# Diogenes, go take a nap **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306 "2010-09-19T17:42:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/401 "2010-09-22T17:50:02Z")
If you’re still reading this, **Dio** , please follow your own advice: > [@](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12943697&postcount=31](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12943697&postcount=31) > > Don’t pop off at the mouth if you don’t know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/402 "2010-09-22T17:50:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, one could take the mature route and admit the existence of qualifiers, exceptions, etc. As long as it’s not the familiar pattern of: > > A: X is bad. > B: I do X. I’m not bad. > A: X is bad. > B: I’ll explain why I do X and why it’s not bad. > A: X is bad. > B: Look, asshole, are you listening or not? > A: X is bad. B: Here is a cite that actually shows that X improves society A: X is bad and that cite is just horseshit. B: Here’s another cite that shows that X is legal and accepted in many societies A: Who cares? Anyone who thinks X is any good is a fucking idiot B: I’m not an idiot and you’re starting to piss me off. A: X is bad. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/403 "2010-09-22T18:00:13Z")
A: X is bad. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > B: Here is a cite that actually shows that X improves society > A: X is bad and that cite is just horseshit. > B: Here’s another cite that shows that X is legal and accepted in many societies > A: Who cares? Anyone who thinks X is any good is a fucking idiot > B: I’m not an idiot and you’re starting to piss me off. > A: X is bad. B: I provided cites to back my position, can you? A: I have personal experience to the contrary. B: Your anecdote is not a factual cite. A: Yes it is. B: You don’t understand how fighting ignorance works. A. X is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/404 "2010-09-22T18:09:53Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > > Well, one could take the mature route and admit the existence of qualifiers, exceptions, etc. As long as it’s not the familiar pattern of: > > > > A: X is bad. > > B: I do X. I’m not bad. > > A: X is bad. > > B: I’ll explain why I do X and why it’s not bad. > > A: X is bad. > > B: Look, asshole, are you listening or not? > > A: X is bad. > > B: Here is a cite that actually shows that X improves society > A: X is bad and that cite is just horseshit. > B: Here’s another cite that shows that X is legal and accepted in many societies > A: Who cares? Anyone who thinks X is any good is a fucking idiot > B: I’m not an idiot and you’re starting to piss me off. > A: X is bad. > [@PlainJain](#): > > A: X is bad. > > > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > > B: Here is a cite that actually shows that X improves society > > A: X is bad and that cite is just horseshit. > > B: Here’s another cite that shows that X is legal and accepted in many societies > > A: Who cares? Anyone who thinks X is any good is a fucking idiot > > B: I’m not an idiot and you’re starting to piss me off. > > A: X is bad. > > B: I provided cites to back my position, can you? > A: I have personal experience to the contrary. > B: Your anecdote is not a factual cite. > A: Yes it is. > B: You don’t understand how fighting ignorance works. > A. X is bad. Yeah, see… one would expect the more reasonable of the two (if there is one) to walk away LONG before it gets to this level. They are both trying to convert the other rather than just state their opinions and move on. I find both parties in the above examples to be childish. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/405 "2010-09-22T18:13:10Z")
> [@Doxy](#): > > They are both trying to convert the other rather than just state their opinions and move on. I find both parties in the above examples to be childish. And what are you attempting to do, with this post? Serious question. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/406 "2010-09-22T18:17:21Z")
> [@Doxy](#): > > I find both parties in the above examples to be childish. And yet you continue to post in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/407 "2010-09-22T18:18:06Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > > [@Doxy](#): > > > > They are both trying to convert the other rather than just state their opinions and move on. I find both parties in the above examples to be childish. > > And what are you attempting to do, with this post? Serious question. Stating my opinion. I enjoy talking with people. I enjoy talking with people whose opinions vary from my own. (That’s ultimately the path to growth, don’t you think?) What I’m not doing, is trying to convince anyone I’m right. ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/408 "2010-09-22T18:19:57Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > > [@Doxy](#): > > > > I find both parties in the above examples to be childish. > > And yet you continue to post in this thread. I guess I didn’t realize that we were arguing. Are we arguing? I do find the discussion interesting. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/409 "2010-09-22T18:21:05Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > It’s not about him not agreeing (even if he chooses to disagree with you with this fingers in his ears saying la-la-la-la), it’s about him turning every interesting thread he enters into another thread about himself. It’s annoying, it’s disruptive and causes people to loose interest. Moderating to keep a thread on track is the norm around here and **Dio** gets a pass on it all the time. it’s bullshit. There used to be a poster on this board who did exactly the same thing, in thread after thread, _for nearly a fucking decade_. Ten years in Internet time is like a century in regular time, and you know what? The whole community let him do it again and again and again. The problem isn’t that **DtC** is a jerk. It’s not even that he has strong opinions. It’s that this community, in general, will _not_ let anything go. Oh, Diogenes has a strongly worded opinion about something? Then we better jump on it and argue and argue and argue and argue and never ever let it die because then we might _lose_ and he might _win_. Eventually, he’ll lose interest in the place or get banned or something. Then another poster hovering on the edges of tolerability will fill his shoes, either by choice or because everybody around here needs to take on certain roles in response to certain expectations. In other words, DtC is the monster the Dope creates itself. If people _stopped_ engaging him, stopped jumping on every post, stopped posting specifically to respond to him instead of the OP, then he wouldn’t be so vexsome. Also, people need to stop taking things so fucking personally. So what if **DtC** thinks (pick your favorite obnoxious opinion). He’s not the boss of you. He’s not setting this country’s policy. If you respond to him to “correct” him, he won’t change his mind and, more importantly, your life won’t be changed one way or the other. The result is the same if you engage him or if you ignore him, so why not just chill the fuck out? Nobody here is so precious that you can’t survive some random dude’s random opinion posted on some message board, and if you give the situation with more weight than that, that’s your problem, not his. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/410 "2010-09-22T18:24:07Z")
The people in the above hypothetical conversation, which you deemed to be childish, are also stating their opinions. What makes their opinions childish attempts to convince the other person of something (and for that matter, what makes attempting to convince someone of something “childish”?) whereas your opinions are mature and non-childish? I would posit that most discussions, on the Internet or elsewhere, consist of attempts to convince the other person of something. Not always to convince them that your opinion is the right one; sometimes just to convince them that your opinion is a valid one, worthy of respect even when disagreed with. But rarely will you find a conversation that looks like: A: Here is my opinion. B: That’s interesting. Here is my opinion. A: We have exchanged information. B: Yes. That was rewarding. Let’s do it again sometime. edit: This was all in reply to **Doxy** ’s post, in case it wasn’t obvious. You guys are quick with the replies. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/411 "2010-09-22T18:24:53Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > > [@PlainJain](#): > > > > It’s not about him not agreeing (even if he chooses to disagree with you with this fingers in his ears saying la-la-la-la), it’s about him turning every interesting thread he enters into another thread about himself. It’s annoying, it’s disruptive and causes people to loose interest. Moderating to keep a thread on track is the norm around here and **Dio** gets a pass on it all the time. it’s bullshit. > > There used to be a poster on this board who did exactly the same thing, in thread after thread, _for nearly a fucking decade_. Ten years in Internet time is like a century in regular time, and you know what? The whole community let him do it again and again and again. The problem isn’t that **DtC** is a jerk. It’s not even that he has strong opinions. It’s that this community, in general, will _not_ let anything go. Oh, Diogenes has a strongly worded opinion about something? Then we better jump on it and argue and argue and argue and argue and never ever let it die because then we might _lose_ and he might _win_. > > Eventually, he’ll lose interest in the place or get banned or something. Then another poster hovering on the edges of tolerability will fill his shoes, either by choice or because everybody around here needs to take on certain roles in response to certain expectations. > > In other words, DtC is the monster the Dope creates itself. If people _stopped_ engaging him, stopped jumping on every post, stopped posting specifically to respond to him instead of the OP, then he wouldn’t be so vexsome. > > Also, people need to stop taking things so fucking personally. So what if **DtC** thinks (pick your favorite obnoxious opinion). He’s not the boss of you. He’s not setting this country’s policy. If you respond to him to “correct” him, he won’t change his mind and, more importantly, your life won’t be changed one way or the other. The result is the same if you engage him or if you ignore him, so why not just chill the fuck out? Nobody here is so precious that you can’t survive some random dude’s random opinion posted on some message board, and if you give the situation with more weight than that, that’s your problem, not his. Bravo. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/412 "2010-09-22T18:28:23Z")
> [@Doxy](#): > > Bravo. Well said. I think you like to play ‘last word’ in internet arguments more than you like to admit. Come and join the childish masses. It’s fun! Being grown-up is a bore. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/413 "2010-09-22T18:28:32Z")
> [@Doxy](#): > > > [@PlainJain](#): > > > > And yet you continue to post in this thread. > > I guess I didn’t realize that we were arguing. > Are we arguing? > I do find the discussion interesting. You continually restate the opinion that it is everyone else’s responsibility to walk away when he starts his thread-shitting: “_Yeah, see… one would expect the more reasonable of the two (if there is one) to walk away LONG before it gets to this level._” Yes we are arguing that point. ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/414 "2010-09-22T18:39:54Z")
B: Here is a cite that actually shows that X improves society A: X is bad and **that cite is just horseshit**. B: Here’s another cite that shows that X is legal and accepted in many societies A: Who cares? **Anyone who thinks X is any good is a fucking idiot** B: I’m not an idiot and **you’re starting to piss me off.** A: X is bad. B: I provided cites to back my position, can you? A: I have personal experience to the contrary. B: Your anecdote is not a factual cite. A: Yes it is. B: You don’t understand how fighting ignorance works. A. X is bad. THAT ^^^ is the point at which they both become childish. When they resort to name-calling and emotional responses rather than civilized discourse. (And let’s not resort to the “Well, Poster A started it!” line, shall we?) Why does my not being bothered by this, appear to bother YOU so much? :dubious: > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > The people in the above hypothetical conversation, which you deemed to be childish, are also stating their opinions. What makes their opinions childish attempts to convince the other person of something (and for that matter, what makes attempting to convince someone of something “childish”?) whereas your opinions are mature and non-childish? I never made a claim to maturity or non-childish behavior. I’m quite capable of being stubborn and childish. (For an example of how petty and childish I can be, by all means check out the thread I started about the bible. :rolleyes:) I do, however, make a reasonable attempt at open-mindedness the majority of the time. And on those occasions when I have been foolish/childish/pig-headed, I try to calm down and walk away before returning and admitting my error. Redundancy is boring. ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/415 "2010-09-22T18:46:01Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > > [@Doxy](#): > > > > I guess I didn’t realize that we were arguing. > > Are we arguing? > > I do find the discussion interesting. > > You continually restate the opinion that it is everyone else’s responsibility to walk away when he starts his thread-shitting: > “_Yeah, see… one would expect the more reasonable of the two (if there is one) to walk away LONG before it gets to this level._” > Yes we are arguing that point. What point would that be? I don’t expect the person arguing with Dio (let’s just say it instead of pussy-footing around with the “Poster A” and “Poster B” masks, eh?) to walk away. I expect the more reasonable of the two to walk away. One way to stop his “threadshitting” is to not engage him. Respond to the OP as Pepperlandgirl suggested. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/416 "2010-09-22T18:56:51Z")
> [@Doxy](#): > > THAT ^^^ is the point at which they both become childish. When they resort to name-calling and emotional responses rather than civilized discourse. (And let’s not resort to the “Well, Poster A started it!” line, shall we?) > > Why does my not being bothered by this, appear to bother YOU so much? :dubious: Fair enough. And dude, I’m not bothered. We’re just sharing opinions here, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/417 "2010-09-22T18:58:00Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > > [@Doxy](#): > > > > THAT ^^^ is the point at which they both become childish. When they resort to name-calling and emotional responses rather than civilized discourse. (And let’s not resort to the “Well, Poster A started it!” line, shall we?) > > > > Why does my not being bothered by this, appear to bother YOU so much? :dubious: > > Fair enough. And dude, I’m not bothered. We’re just sharing opinions here, yes? Absolutely. Now I know where you stand, and you know where I stand so there’s really no more point in our discussing it further, wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/418 "2010-09-22T18:59:37Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > > [@Doxy](#): > > > > Bravo. Well said. > > I think you like to play ‘last word’ in internet arguments more than you like to admit. Come and join the childish masses. It’s fun! Being grown-up is a bore. > [@Doxy](#): > > Absolutely. Now I know where you stand, and you know where I stand so there’s really no more point in our discussing it further, wouldn’t you say? I’m going to have to agree with **Nzinga** on this one, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/419 "2010-09-22T19:33:39Z")
> [@Doxy](#): > > Now I know where you stand, and you know where I stand so there’s really no more point in our discussing it further, wouldn’t you say? Nice try. If all I wanted was one opinion I would be on Wiki. We come here because we enjoy the back and forth. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/420 "2010-09-22T19:48:08Z")
I don’t think people are trying to convert **Dio** to their point of view so much as they are trying to get him to acknowledge that there are other valid points-of-view in the world other than his own. I’d have to agree, though, that at this point it seems kind of futile - if it hasn’t happened yet, it doesn’t seem likely to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306.md?page=22)