# Diogenes, go take a nap **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306 "2010-09-19T17:42:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/101 "2010-09-20T15:28:49Z")
Also known as the “Walk it off!” standard. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/102 "2010-09-20T15:31:16Z")
Walk what off? Not being pregnant is not an injury. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/103 "2010-09-20T15:31:49Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > It will be interesting to see, based on **samclem** ’s earlier post, if some kind of rule is being broken. > > > > Regards, > > Shodan > > Why would you think that? Because of this part - > [@](#): > > You/we need to do something about this. Right after the assertion that **Diogenes** had admitted something. This is assuming that **samclem** is posting in his official capacity as moderator, which may or may not be the case. I concur with others that PM would have been the appropriate way to handle this, if it was official. But since it is out there now… We shall see, I suppose. It would be difficult to phrase a rule to say “Insisting your opinions are true over and over is being a jerk” in a way that could be applied. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/104 "2010-09-20T15:34:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Walk what off? Not being pregnant is not an injury. Yes, it is. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/105 "2010-09-20T15:35:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Walk what off? Not being pregnant is not an injury. No, but infertility is a defect. Kind of like deafness. Which according to you, I suppose, means that cochlear implant surgery is not a medical issue. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/106 "2010-09-20T15:46:05Z")
Infertility is often a marker of an underlying medical condition. Finding out why someone can’t get pregnant is a medical necessity because most people can get pregnant if they are the right age. If you have PCOS you need to be treated to make sure you’re not getting a heart attack. If your tubes are closed because you have an STD you need to be treated. If you are not ovulating that issue has to be addressed before it causes damage to your other organs due to hormonal imbalances. Your reproductive organs should be functional if you are under a certain age. If they aren’t you and your doctor need to know why. Please stop downplaying this fact. You were being a jerk in that thread, **Dio**. You’re still being one now. Please stop. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/107 "2010-09-20T15:51:37Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Walk what off? Not being pregnant is not an injury. > > No, but infertility is a defect. Kind of like deafness. Which according to you, I suppose, means that cochlear implant surgery is not a medical issue. Infertility is not a disability. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/108 "2010-09-20T15:52:43Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > You were being a jerk in that thread, **Dio**. You’re still being one now. Please stop. IANAD, but I’m pretty sure that if **Dio** stopped being a jerk it would be a marker of an underlying medical condition. It seems to be his default now. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/109 "2010-09-20T15:54:08Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Infertility is often a marker of an underlying medical condition. Finding out why someone can’t get pregnant is a medical necessity because most people can get pregnant if they are the right age. If you have PCOS you need to be treated to make sure you’re not getting a heart attack. If your tubes are closed because you have an STD you need to be treated. If you are not ovulating that issue has to be addressed before it causes damage to your other organs due to hormonal imbalances. > > Your reproductive organs should be functional if you are under a certain age. If they aren’t you and your doctor need to know why. > > Please stop downplaying this fact. You were being a jerk in that thread, **Dio**. You’re still being one now. Please stop. Like I said, if there are underlying causes, then THOSE are the issues, not the infertility. We weren’t even talking about getting treatment for underlying causes anyway, but just trying to get pregnant, which never deserves to be compared with with getting treatment for cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/110 "2010-09-20T15:58:19Z")
This makes for a good example: Infertility = some part of your body is not working properly. If part of your body is not working properly, this is an issue that is medical in nature. You should discuss it with a medical professional. You have a medical condition. The medical condition may not be critically important or life-threatening, but many medical conditions fall into these category - it does not make them disappear though. What is so hard to understand about this? **Dio** , your **OPINION** is that infertility is not a medical condition. You think that if part of someone’s body is not functioning properly, that is not a medical condition. Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, even if the vast majority think you are wrong, and there is ample evidence that points in the other direction. The way you express your opinion however, is done in a very jerkish manner. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/111 "2010-09-20T15:59:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > > No, but infertility is a defect. Kind of like deafness. Which according to you, I suppose, means that cochlear implant surgery is not a medical issue. > > Infertility is not a disability. Who said it was? And what difference does that make? I’m talking about your assertion that only health issues are medical issues. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/112 "2010-09-20T16:00:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > > No, but infertility is a defect. Kind of like deafness. Which according to you, I suppose, means that cochlear implant surgery is not a medical issue. > > Infertility is not a disability. Yes, it is. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/113 "2010-09-20T16:02:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Like I said, if there are underlying causes, then THOSE are the issues, not the infertility. We weren’t even talking about getting treatment for underlying causes anyway, but just trying to get pregnant, which never deserves to be compared with with getting treatment for cancer. You see, here’s what i think you mean, expressed in a non-jerkish manner: > [@](#): > > In my opinion, the treatment of infertility is not as important to the health needs of a population, as compared with more serious medical conditions such as cancer. The two conditions are not comparable. I guarantee you that I would not get any shit if I phrased my opinion that way. ETA: When you take the extreme opinion “infertility is not a medical condition” and phrase it as FACT, instead of opinion,you verge into the jerk category. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/114 "2010-09-20T16:03:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Like I said, if there are underlying causes, then THOSE are the issues, not the infertility. We weren’t even talking about getting treatment for underlying causes anyway, but just trying to get pregnant, which never deserves to be compared with with getting treatment for cancer. Just keep ignoring the fact that if someone can’t get pregnant there’s usually a medical reason why and that needs to be addressed. You can’t divorce the marker from the cause. If you are trying to get pregnant and you can’t you need to find out why. FYI, many of the conditions in question that lead to not being able to get pregnant also can increase your chances of getting cancer. For example the risks from PCOS include: > [@](#): > > [Google for Health - What Is Google for Health?](https://health.google.com/health/ref/Polycystic+ovary+disease) > > _Increased risk of endometrial cancer_ > Infertility > Obesity-related conditions, such as high blood pressure and diabetes > Possible increased risk of breast cancer ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/115 "2010-09-20T16:05:36Z")
Why is what Diogenes believes about infertility so important to you all? Is he associated with you in any way? Will he have any effect on your child-rearing or health care? If he did change his mind would it make any difference in your life or the lives of anyone else? He’s stated his opinion and he’s not going to change his mind. Don’t complain about his posting style and then turn around and enable it. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/116 "2010-09-20T16:05:37Z")
It’s hilarious to me on an ongoing basis that we went from > [@Dio](#): > > The aspects of my psychology that get me pitted are honestly not grounded in attempts to be provocative or cause reactions (or get attention), but in impulsiveness, lack of filter (that may be getting worse with age), a few hair-trigger issues and a hyperbolic style that often comes over as more literal than I intend it to. to this bullshit trainwreck about infertility in less than a page and a half. **Dio** , you just need to stop every so often. That’s all it would take. You don’t need to repeatedly assert whatever the hell the Official Dio Zone position is every single time someone disagrees with you. Once is enough. It’s especially galling when you toss off one-liners in response to substantiative posts. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/117 "2010-09-20T16:05:49Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **Dio** , your **OPINION** is that infertility is not a medical condition. You think that if part of someone’s body is not functioning properly, that is not a medical condition. > > Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, even if the vast majority think you are wrong, and there is ample evidence that points in the other direction. **The way you express your opinion however, is done in a very jerkish manner.** (bolding mine) This is exactly the issue. The problem with Dio is not his stance of any given issue, it’s that he’s a huge blowhard who dominates threads with his obnoxious posting style. Anyone with any manners would make a single post laying out their opinion in an expository format, with occasional follow-ups to clarify or question people who disagree. Dio peppers threads with cryptic blanket proclamations until enough attention has been diverted to him that he can be bothered to actually explain his point of view. He’s the guy at the cocktail party with a sandwich board and a megaphone. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/118 "2010-09-20T16:13:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Infertility is not a disability. Apparently, it is in the US under federal law - even where the underlying condition is ameliorated. [http://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/articles/4595/1/Infertility-is-considered-a-disability-under-ADA/Page1.html#](http://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/articles/4595/1/Infertility-is-considered-a-disability-under-ADA/Page1.html#) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/119 "2010-09-20T16:16:46Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Infertility is not a disability. > > Apparently, it is in the US under federal law - even where the underlying condition is ameliorated. > > [http://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/articles/4595/1/Infertility-is-considered-a-disability-under-ADA/Page1.html#](http://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/articles/4595/1/Infertility-is-considered-a-disability-under-ADA/Page1.html#) Well that’s interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306/120 "2010-09-20T16:16:50Z")
Wow, what a horseshit ruling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-go-take-a-nap/554306.md?page=7)