# Diogenes the Cynic, I think we need to discuss this a little bit more **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517 "2005-07-21T18:55:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MissGypsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@MissGypsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissGypsy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/61 "2005-07-22T02:15:11Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > (shrugs) > > The one longstanding, truly stupid fear I have is spiders. I like snakes, other bugs are…okay, really love weird rodents of all sorts. Heck, I even enjoy _tornados_, which is the diametric opposite of sensible fear. > > So I can’t even look at a picture of a spider without shuddering. And yeah, some folks have teased me with spiderish things; especially my sister when we both children and therefore chock full of uncouth impulses and low humor. > > But c’mon. Being teased with something that makes my nerves jump isn’t fun, but it isn’t the end of the world either. If anything, the major problem is being embarrassed by being afraid of something that _stupid_. The fact that my already tangled brain synapses short out over something asinine doesn’t absolve me of all responsiblity. It’s my stupid quirk, and I’m responsible for coping with it. That includes dealing with the occassional too-rough teaser. > > Being teased with an irrational fear doesn’t translate to victimhood. Deliberately teasing someone that way isn’t _nice_, but it’s damned small spuds on the grand scale of what else life can, and often does, throw in one’s way. > > Veb If it makes your nerves jump, it is not a phobia. If it startles you, it is not a phobia. When someone shoves a writhing spider in your face, and lets it crawl upon you, and you have nightmares for weeks… that may be a phobia. I am terrified of spiders, and that is _not_ a matter of my “tangled brain synapses,” nor is it a “stupid quirk.” Let me put it this way: I am more scared of spiders than of anything else, including death. I know it’s irrational, but that’s my reaction to the little critters. So tormenting me with the scariest thing in the world would be ok, because it’s no big deal to the tormentor? I think it’s mean and cruel. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/62 "2005-07-22T02:20:58Z")
> [@DogMom](#): > > I would like to ask, for those of you saying, “Eh, it’s just cotton balls, and that’s really stupid” exactly who died and made you Arbiter Of Rational Phobias? I mean, come on, a phobia is an _irrational fear_, just in case you haven’t gotten it by now. Why is a cotton phobia “stupid” while agoraphobia, or acrophobia, or aeleurophobia “not stupid”? Actually, agoraphobia is stupid. Really, really stupid. In fact, it’s just about the stupidest thing I know. -Miller, agoraphobic. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/63 "2005-07-22T02:47:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, I wouldn’t say it’s a phobia, precisely, but I get a shuddery case of the heebie-jeebies around, well, things that consist of a lot of deep holes close together. […] Anybody else get that? Ugh, yes, and thank you much for bringing that image back to my mind. Anything like that – surinam toads, pomegranate interiors, even limestone – will cause great revulsion in me. > [@](#): > > If it makes your nerves jump, it is not a phobia. If it startles you, it is not a phobia. When someone shoves a writhing spider in your face, and lets it crawl upon you, and you have nightmares for weeks… that may be a phobia. Yea, verily. Wasps make up my phobia. I’ve knocked sliding doors off their rails and broken glasses and chairs in attempts to get away from them. It’s not a conscious reaction – one glimpse of one flying around and I will _bolt_, faster than you can blink. If there’s no way to escape, I’ll slam myself flat against a wall and hyperventilate. I studiously avoid woodsheds, attics, wooden porches, thickets, and any other place they like to hang out. I can’t look at pictures of them, and don’t even like to see the word written – it will be the first word that jumps out at me when scanning a text that contains it. The preceding has been a description of a phobia. “Oogyness” does not make up a phobia; blinding, rationality-killing fear does. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/64 "2005-07-22T03:47:05Z")
Since this seems to have turned into a phobia story recounting . . . I used to be mildly phobic of mirrors. That’s died down to a mild twitch-reaction now; the significant response is now normally limited to mirrors in darkened rooms, especially if they have reflections of doors. When **Teine** and I were looking to get a bed, we went looking through the affordable (read here “cheapass”) furniture stores in our area. Every single one of the beds had _mirrored headboards_. Words . . . do . . . not . . . express. Just thinking about it . . . horrible. While I’m asleep, even. Augh. We eventually found a different bed. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/65 "2005-07-22T04:03:41Z")
I have the opposite aversion to the many-holes thing - I get creeped out by many things sticking out close together, like those nose-pore cleaning strips when they have a little forest of blackhead contents on them. Eee, I’m getting creeped out typing that. I think I know where my aversion for this came from, though - I saw a kid on the bus a long time ago who had a huge mole (we’re talking 1"x2") with fur on it on his forehead. Fur - not the odd hair, but an honest-to-god patch of fur. Creeped me out mightily. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/66 "2005-07-22T04:09:59Z")
> [@MissGypsy](#): > > If it makes your nerves jump, it is not a phobia. If it startles you, it is not a phobia. When someone shoves a writhing spider in your face, and lets it crawl upon you, and you have nightmares for weeks… that may be a phobia. I am terrified of spiders, and that is _not_ a matter of my “tangled brain synapses,” nor is it a “stupid quirk.” I still have nightmares about the few times a spider actually crawled on me. I can’t even think about it without an involuntary shudder. I flinch away even from pictures of spiders. What logic says about their relative harmlessness and useful place in the world doesn’t matter a damn. To me, they’re crawling horrors. If that ain’t phobic, it’s close enough for goverment work. I won’t play one-upsmanship over who’s most scared. Regard the fear however you wish. I regard it as my stupid personal quirk…and one I’m responsible for handling. I can’t seem to change how I react to spiders, but I can choose how to handle it. Of _course_ it’s mean to tease people with what they fear most. It’s pretty nasty behavior, even when it’s mistakenly done ‘in fun’. I won’t allow it to be so earth shattering and traumatic that a sincere apology won’t let an incident be forgiven. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/67 "2005-07-22T05:00:36Z")
Someone earlier wondered about the possible underlying causes or origins of phobias. Where do they come from? For me, the answer may be learned behavior when I was a child. See, I am afraid of bees, wasps, and other sting flying insects. As an adult today, I flinch involuntarily and mightily if one of them sneaks up on me and I realize they’re there only when they’re in very close proximity. I haven’t really run into anything trying to get away from one, but that’s likely been more the lack of potential roadblocks than any real control on my part. I do twist and lunge in pretty severe fashion, tho. And to the best of my knowledge, I’ve never actually even been stung, not even once. I remember my brother getting stung behind his ear once. I remember a cousin being caught in a swarm of bumblebees during an outdoor birthday party when I was 8. I remember vaguely and earliest of all my father lunging and attacking some wasp or something. I think his fear of wasps/bees and his overkill in dispatching them may have been imprinted on me. What I’m describing may not rise to the level of an actual phobia. I can control myself, when I am not surprised, such that I can approach a nest crawling with wasps and spray it down with some insecticide. I am piano-wire-tight ready to react in such situations, however, should any of _the enemy_ make a feint at me. This fear even extends to other flying insects, such as cockroaches/waterbugs, although flies don’t really do more than annoy me. Maybe it’s the difference in the way the two classes of insect fly. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/68 "2005-07-22T05:07:36Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I daresay signs proclaiming _22nd Amendment Repealed; Bush Wins Third! Coulter Appointed to Cabinet_ would be more effective. Yeah, but you’d find yourself wading knee-deep in everyone’s vomit, and that would take the fun out of the chase. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/69 "2005-07-22T05:23:17Z")
What boggles my mind about **Dio** ’s anecdote is that he displayed immature, jerkish, bullying behavior on a job where he was working with **children**. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he never harassed his co-worker when the kids were around, although if they were, then that is a horrible example to have set. But it doesn’t make him sound like the kind of person who should be supervising children anyway. I wouldn’t think I could trust him not to join other kids in mocking someone who was vulnerable, or at least sit silently by and say “They’re kids; whaddya gonna do.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/70 "2005-07-22T05:25:20Z")
Oh, go fuck yourself. You don’t know shit about how I am with kids. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/71 "2005-07-22T05:33:11Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > You don’t know shit about how I am with kids. That’s right. All I know is what you told me: you harassed a co-worker, on the grounds that that’s what “any guy” would do. Which leads me to suspect that when you see a kid harassing another kid, you simply chalk it up to his being a guy. I could be wrong. I hope I am. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/72 "2005-07-22T05:35:29Z")
You ARE wrong. I despise bullying and never tolerated it. And I didn’t “harass” my co-worker. Go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/73 "2005-07-22T05:39:41Z")
I’m glad to hear that you never tolerated bullying. But you did harass your co-worker. And I don’t need to fuck myself, TYVM. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/74 "2005-07-22T05:52:35Z")
I didn’t harass my co-worker. My actions were not intentionally sadistic. My whole point in bringing up the story was that I didn’t _get it_. I thought the cotton ball fear was so stupid that she couldn’t have possibly meant it. I was only trying to be funny. She usually laughed at the cotton song, so I didn’t appreciate how serious she was until the cotton candy incident. I do not take pleasure in making people feel bad. What I’ve been trying to get across was that I didn’t _know_ I was really scaring her. I thought she was _kidding_. I thought it was an _act_ (or at least a theatrical exaggeration of a minor aversion). I thought it would make her laugh. When I figured out she really was scared, I stopped and apologized. I don’t appreciate being told by someone who doesn’t know me that I’m “not fit” to be around children. I spent years working with kids and I was damn good at it. I also have two of my own and I’m a fucking good father. What is “TYVM?” ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/75 "2005-07-22T05:54:24Z")
Thank You Very Much. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/76 "2005-07-22T05:54:53Z")
Rilch, chill out. You’re massively off base. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/77 "2005-07-22T05:55:54Z")
Come on, **Rilch**. If a phobia of _cotton_ doesn’t strike you on first glance as being pretty funny, not to say ridiciulous, you’re being too serious. Yeah, **Dio** went too far on his coworker, he’s contrite, so instead of making comments that have serious implications about his abilities as a parent, let’s appreciate the absurdity of the situation. And lest you accuse me of being insensitive, I’ll have you know my mother has a crippling fear of Dacron. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/78 "2005-07-22T05:56:56Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Thank You Very Much. Oh, duh. :smack: TYVM. ( **Ogre** , thanks) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/79 "2005-07-22T06:08:57Z")
FYI, I got bullied unmercifully when I was a kid. I was a short, scrawny, buck toothed little dork with coke bottle glasses who knew all the answers in the classroom and got the shit kicked out me for being a “brain” and an “egghead.” Also because I was always the smallest kid in the class and had no social skills. In high school I managed to become “cool” (in my mind) by learning to play guitar, growing my hair down to my ass and joining a rock band. It gave me self-confidence and better social skills but I still know what it’s like to be the victim and I would never _intentionally_ make someone else feel that way. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517/80 "2005-07-22T06:15:55Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I didn’t harass my co-worker. My actions were not intentionally sadistic. My whole point in bringing up the story was that I didn’t _get it_. I thought the cotton ball fear was so stupid that she couldn’t have possibly meant it. I was only trying to be funny. She usually laughed at the cotton song, so I didn’t appreciate how serious she was until the cotton candy incident. I do not take pleasure in making people feel bad. What I’ve been trying to get across was that I didn’t _know_ I was really scaring her. I thought she was _kidding_. I thought it was an _act_ (or at least a theatrical exaggeration of a minor aversion). I thought it would make her laugh. When I figured out she really was scared, I stopped and apologized. > > I don’t appreciate being told by someone who doesn’t know me that I’m “not fit” to be around children. I spent years working with kids and I was damn good at it. I also have two of my own and I’m a fucking good father. All right; I concede. Sorry to hear you got a hard time in elementary. But FTR, I didn’t **tell** you you weren’t fit to be around children; I **questioned** whether you were. Now I know. Cheerfully withdrawn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-i-think-we-need-to-discuss-this-a-little-bit-more/313517.md?page=5)