# Diogenes the Cynic, it's not about the fucking movie! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042 "2004-06-24T16:42:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/61 "2004-06-25T11:28:05Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Um, the source was Spurlock. His mouth was moving when he talked to Stossel. I suppose that in your state of desperation, you could claim that the editors computer-generated it or something. Whatever. Why don’t some you guys go to McDonald’s website and make a meal, see how easy it is to hit 3000 calories on just ONE meal. My favorite the double 1/4 pounder w/cheese, large fries, large shake and apple pie: 2700 calories…and that WASN’T supersized. Enough with the ignorance… Hell I’m surprised he just reached 5000… calories.[Bag a meal](http://app.mcdonalds.com/countries/usa/food/nutrition/mcmeal/bagmeal.jsp) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/62 "2004-06-25T11:40:38Z")
Aw, fuck. You assholes who jump into threads late, without reading anything that transpired before, as though the universe will explode if we don’t have benefit of whatever is dribbling out of your pinecone brains at the moment, just rile my ass. The _third fucking post_ in this thread gives a link to one of the many people who have done the McDonalds diet with excellent results, and his average daily caloric intake was 2,500. Others have done 1,200. Enough with the ignorance indeed. Go away. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/63 "2004-06-25T11:48:11Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Can I ask where this 5000 calorie figure came from in the first place? I seem to remember that the film only said it was like 3000 calories. The only source for this 5000 number that I can find is John Stossel, who is far from a reliable source. Does anyone have an actual cite for _Spurlock_ claiming that he ate 5000 calories a day. I don’t know about the Stossel interview but Spurlock himself said it in the CNBC interviwew. > [@holmes](#): > > Hell I’m surprised he just reached 5000 In the same CNBC interview, Spurlock said he had been snacking between meals. But McDonald’s isnt’ the point, right? 😉 Folks, the real enemy here are those like **pizzabrat** who have been using Spurlock and his movie to push anti-McDonald’s hype. I have nothing against Spurlock or his movie except that I don’t see him addressing the incorrect interpretations. Frankly, I think he went about this all wrong. He should have taken the Washington City Paper approach and did a story on those who often don’t have a choice and end up eating junk becuase it’s pretty much all they can afford. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/64 "2004-06-25T12:42:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The only source for this 5000 number that I can find is John Stossel, who is far from a reliable source. Cite? An example of Stossel giving out false information without later correcting the error? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’m sorry but I’m not taking the word of a douche like Stossel. He’s like a really stupid version of Bill O’Reilly. You should be sorry. Just because you may not agree with Stossel, that doesn’t make his **facts** incorrect. Along the same line, just because you agree with Spurlock, doesn’t make his 1-dimensional documentary any less misleading. And before you ask, yes I have seen Spurlock’s documentary. He overate and gained weight. SHOCKING! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/65 "2004-06-25T13:13:51Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’m sorry but I’m not taking the word of a douche like Stossel. He’s like a really stupid version of Bill O’Reilly. I have to take exception to this statement of yours, too, **Diogenes**. You use this little rhetorical nicety against other posters on this board as well. And I, for one, am sick of it. Attacking the messenger is done only when you can’t come up with arguments against the message. It’s a lazy and underhanded tactic, and makes you look far worse than the targets you attack so snidely. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/66 "2004-06-25T13:41:36Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > Cite? An example of Stossel giving out false information without later correcting the error? > > You should be sorry. Just because you may not agree with Stossel, that doesn’t make his **facts** incorrect. Along the same line, just because you agree with Spurlock, doesn’t make his 1-dimensional documentary any less misleading. And before you ask, yes I have seen Spurlock’s documentary. He overate and gained weight. SHOCKING! So what did he say that was misleading? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/67 "2004-06-25T14:02:57Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I have to take exception to this statement of yours, too, **Diogenes**. You use this little rhetorical nicety against other posters on this board as well. And I, for one, am sick of it. What “rhetorical nicety” would that be, asking for a reliable source? I plead guilty. John Stossel is very conservative and pro-corporate. He’s a Michael Moore for the right only without the intelligence or wit. That’s my personal opinion from watching the guy. he does not strike me as bright nor does he strike me as objective or honest. I accept the other cites which have been provided for the calorie intake, but really, they only show how extraordinarily fattening McDonalds food really is. The dramatic rise in calorie intake was incidental to the McDiet, not a deliberate attempt to take in calories. I am really mystified as to why so many are out to get this guy ehn not one of you can cite anything he’s said or done which was dishonest or misleading. I also don’t understand why anyone would want to waste energy defending McDonalds. Do you guys just love McD’s that much? Fine by me. eat until your hearts explode. Or is it, as I suspect, a knee-jerk reaction to having the ethics of corporate America challenged in any way? Well, too bad in that case. Capitalism is an amoral system and corporations are fueled by greed. No one really disputes that. do they? Why the eagerness to be such toadies for the machine? The point of the movie is this: Corporate entities like McDonalds just want your money. They engineer their food to produce a drug reaction and addiction so you’ll eat it more. They have no interest in looking after your health or giving you a product which will not hurt your body. As long as they can make more money by selling you toxins than nutrients, that’s what they will do. It is up to YOU to realize that you must take care of yourself. You can’t rely on the processed food industry to provide you with a healthy diet. There’s nothing dishonest or contravesrial about any of that. I really wish you fucks would get as upset about school lunch programs being sold out to Pepsi and Burger King as you do about a guy simply illustrating the truism that McDonalds food is shit. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/68 "2004-06-25T14:15:22Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > …The _third fucking post_ in this thread gives a link to one of the many people who have done the McDonalds diet with excellent results, and his average daily caloric intake was 2,500. Others have done 1,200. Enough with the ignorance indeed. Go away. You’re funny…I l especially love the not getting the point part; you’re doing that so well these days. MY point was that it is **possible** very easily so, to order off the menu, without doing anything out of the ordinary and hit 5000 calories a day…including snacking, yes your all important link shows that it’s just as possible to eat and still be under the average. Of course your all important link mentions that he didn’t eat 3 meals a day EVERY day and he only had diet soda, yeah so I imagine someone eating 2 meals a day and a non-caloric diet drink would have less calories than someone eating 3 meals a day…but I would hardly call that a comparable study…but with all this pine oil slooshing around in my head, I get confused. My issue is this, “5000 calories, he must be overeating to reach that.” No he doesn’t have to overeat, just eat what’s on the menu. …and from pinecones grow the mighty oak. Just saying. > [@](#): > > Jeff Olsen: In the same CNBC interview, Spurlock said he had been snacking between meals. But McDonald’s isnt’ the point, right? Yes McDonalds ins’t the point… How much extra calories came from the muffins or the chips or the candy? I don’t think it’s abnormal for people in an office to grab a candy bar during the day. I don’t think it’s abnormal to grab a bag of chips in the afternoon…combine that with the 3 meals of processed foods and 5000 calories is an easily reached goal. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/69 "2004-06-25T14:36:31Z")
…and from pinecones grow the mighty oak…or was that acorns? See confused…but clean. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/70 "2004-06-25T14:37:42Z")
No, **Diogenes** , I wasn’t talking about demand a reliable source. I was talking about attacking the messenger. Which you’ve done again. You just can’t help yourself. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I really wish you fucks would get as upset about school lunch programs being sold out to Pepsi and Burger King as you do about a guy simply illustrating the truism that McDonalds food is shit. You’re one of the worst offenders on this message board in attacking fellow posters in argument. It makes engaging you in discussion unpleasant and tiresome. I know this is the Pit and all, but you pull this crap in GD too. It’s sickening. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/71 "2004-06-25T14:49:12Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I really wish you fucks would get as upset about school lunch programs being sold out to Pepsi and Burger King as you do about a guy simply illustrating the truism that McDonalds food is shit. I thought it wasn’t about McDonald’s. See how easy it is to get caught up in that argument? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/72 "2004-06-25T15:01:29Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > No, **Diogenes** , I wasn’t talking about demand a reliable source. I was talking about attacking the messenger. Which you’ve done again. You just can’t help yourself. > > You’re one of the worst offenders on this message board in attacking fellow posters in argument. It makes engaging you in discussion unpleasant and tiresome. > > I know this is the Pit and all, but you pull this crap in GD too. It’s sickening. Dude, this is bullshit. I didn’t attack any posters in the quote you cited unless John Stossel is a poster on this board and I don’t know it. You’re also lying if when you say that I attack posters in GD. I don’t and I haven’t. If you’re going to make the accusation, fucking pony up the cites. As for this thread, well, this is the pit so fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/73 "2004-06-25T15:09:27Z")
Oh, I see. So calling people “you fucks” is just an expression of endearment and affection, then? ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/74 "2004-06-25T15:10:46Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So what did he say that was misleading? That eating McDonald’s every day for every meal will make you gain weight and cause huge health problems. It just isn’t true, at least, it doesn’t have to be. Take our friend Jared, the Subway pitchman. He lost weight by eating at Subway everyday, for lunch and dinner. If I remember correctly, he also skipped breakfast (not a great idea, but I digress). Anyway, he lost weight not because Subway is a health-food Nirvana, but because he _chose_ to eat healthy subs, mainly the veggie sub and the turkey sub. He didn’t eat the Italian BMT, the pizza sub, the meatball sub, or any of the other gutbuster subs. Plus, he exercised. Now Morgan Spurlock went about his experiment a little differently. He ate everything on the menu at least once, supersized only when he was asked, and managed to eat ~5000 calories a day (twice what he needed). However, that was his _choice_. If he had instead eaten only their salads, or held himself to ~2500 calories a day, he would have been alright. Before you start thinking I’m sitting here wearing a Ronald McDonald mask, let me make one thing clear. I am not defending McDonalds. Spurlock himself makes some very good points. Some of their menu items are needlessly fatty and unhealthy. Their portions are WAY out of control. They cater to children but don’t always provide them with healthy food. He also makes great points about school lunches being sold out and unhealthy. All of these things are true and (IMHO) without debate. They would have made a good documentary. But…Spurlock didn’t choose to stick with that. His experiment was flawed, tilted to eating WAY too much food. He also _chose_ not to exercise. Sure, a lot of people do the same thing. But it isn’t McDonald’s (or the fast food industry as a whole) fault. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/75 "2004-06-25T15:48:16Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > That eating McDonald’s every day for every meal will make you gain weight and cause huge health problems. It just isn’t true, at least, it doesn’t have to be. And he didn’t _say_ it had to be. He even showed the Big Mac guy to prove it. > [@](#): > > Take our friend Jared, the Subway pitchman. He lost weight by eating at Subway everyday, for lunch and dinner. If I remember correctly, he also skipped breakfast (not a great idea, but I digress). Anyway, he lost weight not because Subway is a health-food Nirvana, but because he _chose_ to eat healthy subs, mainly the veggie sub and the turkey sub. He didn’t eat the Italian BMT, the pizza sub, the meatball sub, or any of the other gutbuster subs. Plus, he exercised. Jared is in the movie and Spurlock subtly makes the same points as you with his interview with the woman at Jared’s motivational speaking event. The woman completely misses the point by telling Spurlock that she can’t afford to eat at Subway every day to lose weight. Granted, the film doesn’t hit the viewer on the head by pointing out that this is an impression that Subway _wants_ people to get, (i.e. that Subway, in itself, is the solution). It was a commentary on the way that false impressions are deliberately fostered by advertising by what they don’t say as much as by what they do say. > [@](#): > > His experiment was flawed, tilted to eating WAY too much food. He also _chose_ not to exercise. Sure, a lot of people do the same thing. But it isn’t McDonald’s (or the fast food industry as a whole) fault. He doesn’t say it _is_ the food industry’s fault. He says be aware of what you’re doing and take responsibility. > [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Oh, I see. > > So calling people “you fucks” is just an expression of endearment and affection, then? No, that’s an insult, but it’s in the Pit, not in GD. It’s also not the only thing I said. I don’t just hurl ad homs without any other substance, and I don’t hurl them at all in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/76 "2004-06-25T15:52:57Z")
Okay, this is getting out of hand. It’s turning into direct attacks on Diogenes, and that’s fucked up. He may be wrong about this particular issue, or just sees it a different way, but he’s a damn good person, and anybody wants to diss him has to go through me. I’m used to it anyway, so flail away. But Dio is a decent guy, and I’m not going to stand by and watch him be piled on over his rep as a poster. There’s no one here with a higher reputation. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/77 "2004-06-25T15:59:07Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > IMHO, not enough people who watch the film do so with a healthy dose of skepticism. > [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > 1. He’s fostering ignorace by pandering to those who: > [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > This is not any sort of proclomation against the movie but rather the audience! Specifically, the part of the audience that leaves thinking, “Wow! McDonald’s is Eeeevil!” Jeff, I’m asking you (who have not seen the movie) to stop trashing those of us who have. You can’t read our minds. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/78 "2004-06-25T16:13:30Z")
Thank you, **Lib**. I don’t really feel like I merit such a kind defense but thank you anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/79 "2004-06-25T16:18:31Z")
I got your back, Dio. 🙂 You’re one of the few with whom I disagree about so much but respect so highly. Sentient Meat is another, and Spiritus Mundi a third. Esteemed company, that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042/80 "2004-06-25T16:24:54Z")
In the midst of all this bickering I haven’t really stated my own personal reaction the film. I did not go away thinking “I have to stay away from McDonalds” but “Wow, I really have to start paying attention to what I eat and maybe I should get off my ass and exercise.” The film also really kicked me in the ass to think very carefully about what I feed my child and what kind of habits I allow her to develop. The school lunch stuff was really scary as well. I think these are exactly the reactions the filmmaker wanted to evoke and I also think that anyone with even average intelligence who watches the film will not come away with an impression that it was intended to be a hatchet piece on McDonalds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-the-cynic-its-not-about-the-fucking-movie/252042.md?page=5)