# Diplomacy: SDMB's entry in the WorldMasters 2002 Tourney **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 5, 2002, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323 "2002-11-05T05:12:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/141 "2003-01-07T03:51:38Z")
Just get G to build fleets period. Lull E into complacency and go MAO-IRI in S02. Unless he secures a strong early friendship with F or G, E is usually the weak link in the Northern Triangle. You striking against E satisfies Italy and Germany that you’re commited in the north. Maintaining a balance of fleets and armies satisfies them that you’re not gunning for either of them. Anyway, as long as G doesn’t make 3 armies you’re cool. IMEsteemedO. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/142 "2003-01-07T05:08:56Z")
You know, it was a really odd turn the closer I look at it. Everything was a little too perfect, not a single move was contested, or bounced. Not a single SC changed hands. Russia took Rumania completely uncontested, and Turkey was really strange. He held his Ankara fleet, and played it really safe in supporting a hold on Bulgaria. Either he’s really dumb, or he’s managed to build a rock solid alliance with Russia against Austria. Frankly both are possible. Its going to be tricky, so far it appears that there are no hot wars yet, and the only obvious one budding is Italy v. Austria. Got to make sure I’m in control of the whole E/G/R dynamic in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/143 "2003-01-10T22:43:24Z")
Just thought you all should know that I (Germany) expect to be in Edinburgh in fall of 1902. I didn’t want to, but I was forced to choose between supporting England or France in spring. England was in Norway, London and the channel with fleets and Wales with an army. France was in Brest and MAO with fleets and Spain and Gascony with armies. I was in Holland, Munich and Berlin with armies and Denmark and Kiel with fleets. I persuaded Russia to build an army in St. Pete’s in return for non hindering him in taking Norway. He took Norway with the army, and England retreated to the Barents. I snuck into the North Sea from Denmark, and to Helgoland from Kiel. My armies moved from Berlin to Kiel, Holland to Belgium and Munich to Ruhr. My dilemma is that France, who seems a very eager ally wants my North Sea fleet to assist him in taking the channel, rather than moving to Edinburgh this season. I’d love to convoy my army into Edinburgh, but England could kick me out of the Sea breaking the convoy. If he does, I will, of course, retreat into Edinburgh. With Russia forced to cover St. Pete’s, England may be able to finesse his way back into Norway, and I’d hate for England to not have to disband, even if we were in the Channel and North Sea. In the east, Austria and Italy are successfully holding off a juggernaut. Whaddaya think? I can email a map if anyone’s interested. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/144 "2003-01-10T22:53:01Z")
**AB** , I’d love to see the map, if you get a chance. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/145 "2003-01-10T23:39:28Z")
Well, to add to the round of updates. I’m enjoying somewhat less success (as Austria) than the rest of you seem to be. 1901 finished with Turkey in Serbia and Italy in Tyrolia. It’s not all bad. I’ve got Greece and a solid relationship with Russia. He’s evenly divided his attention between North and South, seems to value my assistance, and looks headed for 8 centers after 1902. S02 I took Serbia, Russia took Bulgaria, and we have a mutual defense pact. Unfortunately Italy took Vienna. Russia has agreed to help me stave him off. I may be able to kick him out of there without losing any other centers. I appear to be reasonably safe, as long as things stay on an even keel, but with a pretty small chance to expand too much. Does anyone have a problem with my being a total lapdog to a Russia that is clearly a runaway train? I have no illusions about my chances of winning on this board, particularly not with the handicap I put on myself in 1901 by allowing Italy to totally hoodwink me. So I figure I should become one of those wimpy players that play as pawns of a greater Power, as long as it’ll get me into Round 2. Is that reasonable? ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/146 "2003-01-11T00:23:54Z")
Well, the world needs toadies too. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/147 "2003-01-12T12:11:45Z")
Hehe, in my game I’m hoping to have 2 toadies. Does that get some kind of award? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/148 "2003-01-13T07:33:39Z")
OK, I just got _the strangest_ email sent from “Swiss Intelligence \<[Swiss\_Intelligence@hotmail.com](mailto:Swiss_Intelligence@hotmail.com)\>”. I’ll paste it here: > [@](#): > > WROM: UZXUWLSZLKBRNVWWCUFPEGAUT > RE: EQUIPEROCA > DATE: 13 JANUARY 2003 > > REPORTS INDICATE JULIO PERERIA PLANNING STAB SOON. REPORTS INDICATE HIS MASSIVE PRIOR SUCCESS IN TOURNAMENTS SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LIGHTLY. CAUTION IS STRONGLY ENCOURAGED. > > REMEMBER - JULIO PERERIA LIKE ALL MEMBERS OF EQUIPEROCA CAN MANOEUVRE WITH THE BEST OF THEM AND IS NOT TO BE BELIEVED. EARLY LEADER SYNDROME WITH EGGBERT SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED ON THE BOARD. HE SHOULD BE CONSIDERED EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO ALLOW HIM TO SUCCEED. IT IS TIME FOR NEW BLOOD. > > -SWISS INTELLIGENCE. The player mentioned, Julio, is my ally playing Italy. The message is sent to all players in my game. Probably just a fun joke, but damn it is troubling when the guy is your most important ally! Although there really ins’t much chanceof him seriously stabbing me. I’m in a solid defensive position. I glanced over the matchups and it doesn’t look like the rest of you are playing anyone from this team, but has anyoneelse seen this kind of gamesmanship? ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/149 "2003-01-13T19:31:20Z")
Strange message indeed. I wouldn’t think much of it. Prolly just a joke. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/150 "2003-01-13T19:42:10Z")
I’d guess it’s probably just a rival team trying to sow dischord in your relationship with him. Don’t read too much into it. I haven’t gotten any letters like that, myself. I barely get press from the players that _are_ in my game. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/151 "2003-01-13T20:55:05Z")
**Omni** , my game also got an email from “Swiss Intelligence”. Different player (obviously), and different team. But other than that, it was pretty much word for word: > [@](#): > > FROM: SWISS INTELLIGENCE GENEVA > RE: 7 MOTHS OF ERLENDS PARKA > DATE: 13 JANUARY 2003 > > REPORTS INDICATE SASCHA HINGST PLANNING MASSIVE STAB. REPORTS INDICATE MASSIVE PRIOR SUCCESS SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LIGHTLY. CAUTION IS STRONGLY ENCOURAGED. > > REMEMBER - THE 7 MOTHS OF ERLENDS PARKA CAN MANOEUVRE WITH THE BEST OF > THEM AND IS NOT TO BE BELIEVED. EARLY LEADER SYNDROME SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED ON THE BOARD. SHOULD BE CONSIDERED EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO ALLOW THEIR CONTINUED SUCCESS. IT IS TIME FOR NEW BLOOD. DO NOT ALLOW TO THE SECOND ROUND. > > -SWISS INTELLIGENCE. In the case of my game, the message is really pretty stupid, since Sascha (Germany) is not in a position to stab anyone, unless he can convince one of his present foes to become an ally. BTW, we’ve concluded Winter 1902, and it’s a very even game: Russia has 6 units, Turkey, Germany, and I (England) have 5 each, and France, Italy, and Austria have 4 each. (Portugal is still unoccupied.) Current alliances appear to be: EF, GI, RT. Seeming nonaggression pacts: AI, ER, GR. There had been an AT for the first few moves, but it bit the dust in Fall 02; now Austria’s apparently the odd man out. Clear hostilities between: A-T, E-G, F-G, F-I. I’ll circulate a map later. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/152 "2003-01-13T21:02:38Z")
Oh yeah, here’s a query for you: do any of the players in your games Dip by phone? And if so, how do you feel about it? In my game, Germany and Italy (both Germans IRL) have been Dipping by phone in addition to email. I must admit it makes me more wary of both of them - I feel that whatever I’m telling one, I should assume I’m telling the other. I feel the additional diplomatic channel gives an advantage to its participants. While it may be legal, it just doesn’t seem sporting. Earlier on, on the WM message board, there was a rather involved discussion about the rule that allows one to forward messages you’ve received from other players. The general sentiment was that forwarding others’ messages was a slimy tactic. I agreed, but to me it seems rather minor compared to an environment where some players can phone each other, but others can’t. Any experience with this, **JC**? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/153 "2003-01-13T21:53:25Z")
OK, my game is loaded with morons. I had an allinace with Russia and England to pressure Germany. He has 2 fleets, and Russia and England are in position to attack all three soft spots (Baltic, Skag, and Hel). He should have either lost 1 of those and lost Sweden, or lost two of those. All he lost was Sweden, and since its the Spring its totally pointless. He’s now completely out of danger of losing any of his home SCs and there’s no way England can attack him any more. FUCK!!! Whats worse, being allied with a blithering idiot against a smart opponent or being allied with a smart (and dangerous opponent) against a blithering idiot? ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/154 "2003-01-13T23:22:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*Omniscient \*\*\* > Whats worse, being allied with a blithering idiot against a smart opponent or being allied with a smart (and dangerous opponent) against a blithering idiot? Depends on how specifically the idiotic ally is willing to follow your instructions. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/155 "2003-01-13T23:42:36Z")
Well, I think pretty specifically. However I made the mistake last round of leaving the tactics to him on the other side of the board, that turned out really badly. I’m concocting a plan this turn that might work out. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/156 "2003-01-14T00:35:37Z")
You think you’ve got problems. My GM and I don’t get along. AND he’s the official ‘observer’ for both games I’m GMing. I think he’s a pompous ass. God alone knows what he thinks of me. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/157 "2003-01-14T06:47:58Z")
Better toe the line then, **JC**! **Omni** , if the idiot is well and truly willing to be your pawn, I’d take it as a blessing. In such situations I’ve encountered, the policy that’s seemed to work best for me has been the following: 1. Establish relationship with your pawn in the realm of ‘friends’/‘allies’ instead of ‘enemies’ 2. Make mild suggestions as to what orders pawn should submit 3. Watch as pawn does not follow suggestions and meets with failure 4. Make mild suggestions as to what orders pawn should submit. Explain goals of these orders. 5. Watch as pawn does not follow suggestions and meets with failure exactly as you predicted. Watch as other Powers defeat pawn using orders that you predicted. 6. Point out to pawn that you predicted what other Powers would do and had pawn followed your suggestions he’d still have Sweden and Norway to boot. 7. Make less-mild suggestions as to what orders pawn should submit. Make sure they do nothing but maximize immediate benefit to pawn. 8. Repeat step 7 until pawn seems to follow your suggestions without too much bother. 9. Begin suggesting orders that maximize your benefit while still being beneficial to pawn. 10. Repeat step 9 until pawn is of no more use to you. 11. Dispose of pawn. As long as you don’t overdo it and piss him off, this can make an idiot into a valuable tool. It presupposes some predictability on the board, but early on that’s usually a decent bet. This has worked for me exactly twice, but that’s out of two encounters with a true idiot, so I count the plan a success. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/158 "2003-01-16T00:11:27Z")
I just sent all you guys a email, I’d appreciate it if you took a peek. **WL** , I regards to the last comment. I’m keeping my pawn on my side I hope, and I’ll know exactly who’s being sincere this turn and who isn’t. Hopefully I can keep him afloat until _I_ decide its time to take him out. I’ll need to guess right this turn, if I do things will be looking really pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/159 "2003-01-18T17:54:00Z")
This is a letter sent to all parties by England in my game, shortly after he regained the North (with me retreating to Edinburg) and France forces the Channel. > [@](#): > > Gentlemen, do not kid yourselves. We have a juggernaut in our midst. Not only that, but we have German and French morons assuring this victory. Their complete lack of diplomatic perception and opportunistic ways are costing not only me, but Austria, Italy, either Russia or Turkey, and themselves the game. > > The assurance of Russian or Turkish victory (probably Russian, they don’t have the Italians on them as the Turks) is vile and an unavoidable outcome at this stage in the game. They not only have assured Russian victory, but also have made themselves targets, so that we must destroy the combined 11 “idiot centers” to prevent the game from being ruined. > > The only powers capable of fighting the juggernaut–that is, that aren’t hellbent on destroying England–are being crushed. By the time Austria is gone, Italy will be falling in line behind the Archduke for his warning. By the time England is gone, Germany and France will already have begun to squabble over English centers. By the time Italy is swallowed whole by the Turks, Germany will be taken from the rear. By then, it is a race to see up who can gobble up the frogs the quickest. > > Germany and France, you assuring Russian victory. You are guaranteeing it to the fullest extent. I will fight you to the last of my ability so that by the time you are rid of me Russia will be looming over Warsaw like the great bear they will be. > > I congratulate the Russians on their victory. If they didn’t dislike me, I would align myselves with them in a heartbeat. But alas, we are all doomed. What do you think? Am I an idiot, or a moron? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323/160 "2003-01-18T21:54:23Z")
**AB** , who are you again, and is there a map to check? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diplomacy-sdmbs-entry-in-the-worldmasters-2002-tourney/135323.md?page=9)