# Dire Straits "Sultans of Swing"--needs some horns, darnit! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [September 13, 2025, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020 "2025-09-13T18:03:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2025, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/21 "2025-09-14T03:41:13Z")
Bear in mind that “Sultans of Swing” was from their first album, which they recorded in 1978 at a total cost of £12,500 (about £69,000, or $94,000, in today’s money). They didn’t have a horn player in their band, much less multiple horns, and as a new band, recording their debut album on a shoestring budget, even if Knopfler had _wanted_ horns in that song, they probably didn’t have the money for it. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2025, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/22 "2025-09-14T03:49:54Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > My interpretation was the Sultans were a mediocre group who were never going to amount to much. Guitar George knew all the cords but nobody’s going to confuse him for a great musician. Harry is just up there enjoying himself without a care in the world because he’s got a daytime job as is doing alright. But I gotta respect them, they’re still up there doing their thing even if their thing isn’t all that good. Agreed. It’s clear from the lyrics (and from interviews) that they aren’t a great band (maybe not even a good band), but they’re up there playing what they want to play, even though the “crowd of young boys” doesn’t like their music. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2025, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/23 "2025-09-14T04:36:39Z")
I always thought the song was about discovering a gem of a band playing Dixieland Jazz, of all things, in an English pub; unappreciated and ignored. It’s a hipster’s greatest dream. To learn that it is just about a crappy bar band is a major let down. We’ve all seen our fair share of terrible bands. Heck, I’ve been in a terrible bar band. It makes the lyrics mundane IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Bubblethegumkid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubblethegumkid/32/19893_2.png) [@Bubblethegumkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bubblethegumkid)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2025, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/24 "2025-09-14T05:37:56Z")
Has anyone here heard the Leo Moracchioli cover of it? (Link included for those who haven’t) [Sweet Cover](https://youtu.be/x0RV0kgdqJU?si=a3EZ8vScdoHzUU_C) ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2025, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/25 "2025-09-15T01:27:55Z")
After the success of that song, he should have found them and bought them some new instruments. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2025, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/26 "2025-09-15T03:02:49Z")
Indeed, just because some drunken yobs do not appreciate world music, that is supposed to imply the Sultans of Swing are somehow mediocre? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2025, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/27 "2025-09-15T03:24:13Z")
Their lead guitarist just plays rhythm and doesn’t want to make it cry or sing. Does that sound like a good guitarist to you? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2025, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/28 "2025-09-15T03:27:27Z")
If it’s traditional Swing you don’t want your guitarist to showboat. It’s not a lead instrument. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2025, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/29 "2025-09-15T03:32:47Z")
I won’t debate the meaning since Knopfler weighed in, but I had always assumed George was rhythm guitar and Harry was lead – like Mark and David Knopfler. Rhythm guitar is an underappreciated skill and I took it to mean George had focused on mastering it. Now I know it’s al just a 5 minute song about a shit band ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2025, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/30 "2025-09-15T04:18:43Z")
Unless you’re a horn player, absolutely not. So we can hear less of Mark Knoppfler’s solos and rhythm tracks? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2025, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/31 "2025-09-15T12:24:46Z")
I don’t know that it’s fair to say they were a “shit” band. They were a local bar band, just some guys playing music for a couple of bucks on the weekend. The funny thing is that their name is so lofty, The Sultans of Swing, a giant name for a little band. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2025, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/32 "2025-09-15T12:37:16Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > But he doesn’t see too many faces, because they don’t give a damn about a trumpet-playing band–it ain’t what they call rock and roll. Heh, all this time I though the lyrics were– _They don’t give a damn about any **jumpin’** , playin’ band_ _It ain’t what they call rock and roll_ Which I thought meant bands where the members jumped around theatrically while playing-- they’re poseurs, as opposed to musicians who just stand there and play good music. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2025, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/33 "2025-09-15T12:44:05Z")
I disagree that “he didn’t have a high opinion of them” I think we was lamenting their circumstances and lack of respect couldn’t be any less. He didn’t seem to be critical of their abilities or performance, but rather the irony of having a kingly name in such a dive bar. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2025, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/34 "2025-09-16T07:51:08Z")
[Mary Spender](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g00S-a_0lo) doesn’t agree and demonstrates why it works better as written. She also recommends listening to the Alchemy live version. Really good video like much of her stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2025, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/35 "2025-09-16T15:16:28Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > the whole point of the song is that the “sultans of swing” were kinda shit > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Dire Straits are dissing the shit out of the Sultans. The “horns blowin’ that sound” are in some other bar; they’re at “the competition in other places”; unlike these lackluster bozos who got nuthin’. George is playing basic chord harmony despite being lead, and Harry might be good, but he’s phoning this in and will play for real on Friday > [@Sigene](#): > > I disagree that “he didn’t have a high opinion of them” I think we was lamenting their circumstances and lack of respect couldn’t be any less. He didn’t seem to be critical of their abilities or performance Agree with those saying the song’s narrator respects the band — even if Knopfler didn’t care for them in real life. And **LSLGuy** : the lyrics strongly imply the Sultans have horns, and that Harry is saving is creativity for Friday night “with the Sultans”. I think the narrator respects “Creole” and is saluting the guitarist’s purity with "Mind, he’s strictly rhythm…” The only bad mouthing is directed at the hipsters ignoring the band. Lyric excerpts: …you stop and you hold everything A band is blowing Dixie, double-four time You feel alright when you hear the music ring —- …you don’t see too many faces Coming in out of the rain to hear the jazz go down Competition in other places Ah, but the horns, they’re blowin’ that sound —- You check out Guitar George, he knows all the chords Mind he’s strictly rhythm, he doesn’t want to make it cry or sing — - And Harry doesn’t mind if he doesn’t make the scene He’s got a daytime job, he’s doing alright He can play the honky-tonk like anything Saving it up for Friday night With the Sultans With the Sultans of Swing —- And a crowd of young boys They’re fooling around in the corner Drunk and dressed in their best brown baggies And their platform soles They don’t give a damn about any trumpet playing band —- And the Sultans Yeah, the Sultans, they play Creole ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2025, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/36 "2025-09-16T15:23:53Z")
Yeah, I always thought the song was paying respect to a working band that want going to ever make it, but still play what they want; just a bar band on a rainy night. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2025, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/37 "2025-09-16T15:43:11Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > I always thought the song was about discovering a gem of a band playing Dixieland Jazz, of all things, in an English pub; unappreciated and ignored. It’s a hipster’s greatest dream. > [@CaveMike](#): > > Now I know it’s al just a 5 minute song about a shit band Knopfler can say what he wants, but I’m going to be a deconstructionist and say he’s wrong. The Sultans are a fair band, playing good bar music. They’re not the Shitty Beatles, which was not just a clever name. The narrator just walked in and heard this group, and sure the local kids hate it, but fuck them, they have no taste. If one really wants to be a deconstructionist, Knopfler is making fun of the Sultans because he has a recording contract and they don’t. _Argumentum ad populum_. Kinda cheesy to say “I’m a great artist and you’re not” on your first album! Let’s wait and see, Mark Sultan. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/38 "2025-09-17T02:42:36Z")
You’ve convinced me. Regardless of what might have inspired the song, there’s nothing in the lyrics that say they’re bad – just unsuccessful. And these lines are pretty glowing compliments: - “but the horns they blowin’ that sound” - “He can play the honky-tonk like anything” ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/39 "2025-09-17T03:38:45Z")
That’s only half of it: - the music is good enough to make you “feel alright” - Guitar George knows _all_ the chords ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020/40 "2025-09-17T11:10:41Z")
He hears them play from outside, stops, and thinks “hold everything” then goes in and stays until they finish for the night. I’d imagine if you told a band that they’d be pretty pleased. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dire-straits-sultans-of-swing-needs-some-horns-darnit/1023020.md?page=3)