# Direct Deposit and OhMyGodYouHaveToBeKiddingMe **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586 "2009-06-22T15:09:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/21 "2009-06-22T16:33:15Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Thanks for your input. And thanks for your insightfullness as to the real issue here. If some “extremely professional and intelligent woman” had assured me my money in my account was safe, then it dissappeard and she said “my bad, too bad, sooo sad”, I’d be referring to her in much less polite terms than “the girl”. As to the OP, and some other posters, at least some of us here can thank you for revealing yet another way the system is set up to royally screw you over if your not careful. I’ll certainly take note of it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/22 "2009-06-22T16:35:32Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > Thank you. For sake of discussion, lets assume the company overpaid with that direct deposit. What is the general process they should have taken to make the correction? An erroneous direct deposit, say two numbers were transposed in the amount field, is a much different thing that the assertion of a claim against a former employee and engaging in ACH self-help to correct it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/23 "2009-06-22T16:37:10Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > And thanks for your insightfullness as to the real issue here. > > If some “extremely professional and intelligent woman” had assured me my money in my account was safe, then it dissappeard and she said “my bad, too bad, sooo sad”, I’d be referring to her in much less polite terms than “the girl”. > > As to the OP, and some other posters, at least some of us here can thank you for revealing yet another way the system is set up to royally screw you over if your not careful. I’ll certainly take note of it. Whoa there, chief. Howzabout reading the several paragraphs above my asterisked remark before you get all butt-hurt. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/24 "2009-06-22T17:02:54Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > An erroneous direct deposit, say two numbers were transposed in the amount field, is a much different thing that the assertion of a claim against a former employee and engaging in ACH self-help to correct it. Well that is obvious but didn’t answer the question. If a company has a policy, agreed to by the employee that the final check will have things deducted and the company didn’t know the given check was the final one, then the correction would be okay wouldn’t it? The problem is we don’t know the formal agreements about the laptop. Are things buried in a company handbook that an employee acknowldeges receipt of enforceable? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/25 "2009-06-22T17:17:39Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > If a company has a policy, agreed to by the employee that the final check will have things deducted and the company didn’t know the given check was the final one, then the correction would be okay wouldn’t it? Then they get to make adjustments to the final check before they deposit it into the account. If the employee makes an end-run around this provision, by quitting shortly after payday, then the employer has the usual recourse that anybody has against an unjustly enriched party – a lawsuit. This is why employers typically avoid becoming their employees’ creditor or obligee. The only entity allowed offset (vis-a-vis the account) is the bank and that is granted by statute. I’d also point out, despite your late protest of “obviousness,” your original claim was that any employer had this right, which you now limit to those who have had the foresight to include a final-check adjustment clause. However, as I explain above, even such a clause as that will not allow an employer to debit an employee’s third-party bank account. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/26 "2009-06-22T17:21:52Z")
The DD doesn’t bother me too much because I’ve always worked for a company that had more to lose than I did if they ever pulled a petty move like that. I also learned a long time ago not to let ANY institution automatically withdraw money from my accounts. (I’ll push it, you don’t have to pull it) I once refinanced my home and discovered that my previous mortgage company forgot to remove my account number from their automatic withdrawal procedures. So this huge unexpected withdrawal hit my account causing all kinds of bounced checks around town. My discussion with their representatives did little to assure me that their “system” wouldn’t repeat this problem in a month. I went to my bank and asked the “girl” to lock them out of my account. She said," No way. They are a joint partner to your account". I said, “So you’re telling me that I have to close my account and open a new one?” She said, “If you do that and they hit your closed account we will remove the funds from your new account to cover it.” I said," So you’re telling me I have to close this account, find another bank, open an account and not tell you about it?" She did some stammering at this point. I closed my account and did just that. My present bank account lets me schedule direct payments out of my account but is 100% push. I have to initiate the transactions. Anybody who insists on “automatically” withdrawing funds from my account is somebody who I don’t do business with. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/27 "2009-06-22T17:25:21Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > The DD doesn’t bother me too much because I’ve always worked for a company that had more to lose than I did if they ever pulled a petty move like that. That’s my situation, too, actually, it’s just the people I used to work for are so used to walking all over various peons that they assume everyone is in the peons’ league. I’m not. They’re just so shortsighted that they don’t understand that I can cause them a lot more hurt than one laptop’s worth of pain. It’s just screwing people is a habit. Anyways, all of my stuff is “push” too. Again, why I asked the damned banker about it! I didn’t want any chances. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/28 "2009-06-22T17:29:33Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > That’s my situation, too, actually, it’s just the people I used to work for are so used to walking all over various peons that they assume everyone is in the peons’ league. I’m not. They’re just so shortsighted that they don’t understand that I can cause them a lot more hurt than one laptop’s worth of pain. It’s just screwing people is a habit. > > Anyways, all of my stuff is “push” too. Again, why I asked the damned banker about it! I didn’t want any chances. > > -Joe So, what are you going to say to the boys and girls down at the bank? ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/29 "2009-06-22T17:36:36Z")
What I was trying to get to was that if there was a mistake in the deposit, does the company have a right to make a correction to a direct deposit? That is, was the bank wrong for even allowing the transaction or is a correction of that sort okay? If they can’t make corrections to direct deposits unilaterally, there is no further issue. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/30 "2009-06-22T17:40:21Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > So, what are you going to say to the boys and girls down at the bank? Depends how things shake out, really. If I see the money back in my account tomorrow morning, I’ll probably just cancel the account and get on with my life. Maybe leave a couple landmines for the ex-company. If some other headache comes from it, it’ll probably be time to gear up for a full nuclear exchange. If you genuinely think that a call to the AG would at least get them seriously looked at, I’ll do that too. I know for certain they pulled something exactly like this at least once before, and probably others that I never heard about. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/31 "2009-06-22T17:40:56Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > What I was trying to get to was that if there was a mistake in the deposit, does the company have a right to make a correction to a direct deposit? That is, was the bank wrong for even allowing the transaction or is a correction of that sort okay? > > If they can’t make corrections to direct deposits unilaterally, there is no further issue. Do you have a copy of the form you filled out when you signed up for direct deposit? It very likely included a clause where you specifically gave them permission to correct an erroneous deposit, by withdrawing the erroneously deposited funds without prior notice. Every one I’ve ever signed has had such a clause. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/32 "2009-06-22T17:41:04Z")
Here is what my company’s direct deposit authorization form states about removing funds from an employee’s account: _In the event that COMPANY deposits funds erroneously into my account, I authorize COMPANY to debit my account for an amount not to exceed the original amount of the erroneous credit._ I guess the OP’s employer could argue that the last deposit was made in error because they didn’t know he would quit the next day with an “outstanding debt.” (Note that I think the employer’s claim would be full of shit.) But in any case, it seems underhanded. If an employee quits with the possibility of debt owed, it seems the right thing to do is discuss it, not just yank funds from the guy’s account. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/33 "2009-06-22T17:53:12Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > If you genuinely think that a call to the AG would at least get them seriously looked at, I’ll do that too. I know for certain they pulled something exactly like this at least once before, and probably others that I never heard about. Well, the AG’s office certainly isn’t going to call up your former employer and ask if they’ve been breaking the law. So, I think you should file a complaint with them. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/34 "2009-06-22T17:59:05Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > … She said, “If you do that and they hit your closed account we will remove the funds from your new account to cover it.” … This is similar to a discussion we once had with a bank employee: If you close an account and someone pulls one of these surprise withdrawals the bank _reopens_ the account and you are on the hook for it as far as they are concerned. I.e., closing an account has little actual effect on such cons. They had a form to revoke an existing DD agreement, but again, it doesn’t have as much effect as one would hope. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/35 "2009-06-22T18:56:33Z")
(Looks at GQ list…) Come on, come on, only two more posts and my thread will have passed an SDMB thread on zombies! We can do it! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/36 "2009-06-22T19:09:57Z")
I don’t know the details on direct deposit, but you also will want to be familiar with your state’s laws on deductions from paychecks for damaged equipment and any paperwork you may have signed with your former employer regarding that. It could range from possibly excusing what they did to adding a wage and hour complaint to what they did, depending on the circumstances. For example, see here for Washington state re: Breakage, loss, damage: [http://www.lni.wa.gov/WorkplaceRights/Wages/PayReq/PayDeduct/default.asp](http://www.lni.wa.gov/WorkplaceRights/Wages/PayReq/PayDeduct/default.asp) ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/37 "2009-06-22T19:19:24Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#): > > I don’t know the details on direct deposit, but you also will want to be familiar with your state’s laws on deductions from paychecks for damaged equipment and any paperwork you may have signed with your former employer regarding that. It could range from possibly excusing what they did to adding a wage and hour complaint to what they did, depending on the circumstances. > > For example, see here for Washington state re: Breakage, loss, damage: > > [http://www.lni.wa.gov/WorkplaceRights/Wages/PayReq/PayDeduct/default.asp](http://www.lni.wa.gov/WorkplaceRights/Wages/PayReq/PayDeduct/default.asp) IANAL (obviously from my legal errors above) but it sounds to me like in some states, under some circumstances what the company did might have been legal if not admirable. Accusing them of wire fraud without more information might be a tad premature. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/38 "2009-06-22T19:29:43Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > Well that is obvious but didn’t answer the question. > > If a company has a policy, agreed to by the employee that the final check will have things deducted and the company didn’t know the given check was the final one, then the correction would be okay wouldn’t it? > > The problem is we don’t know the formal agreements about the laptop. > > Are things buried in a company handbook that an employee acknowldeges receipt of enforceable? So, the bank just takes it on faith that there’s said agreement? Incidentally, that you’re able to sometimes take an advance in pay which you later work off, that isn’t the normal course. People work with the expectation of being paid for the work after it’s done. They don’t get paid and then decide to go work. Despite what formal agreements there may or may not be, the company can’t arbitrarily withdraw money from his account. Period. It’s also not true, OP, that your direct deposit can’t be stopped. While your bank may not allow you to cancel your authorization (which sounds stupid. It’s your account; you’re free to disallow whomever you want from having access), you can just freeze all electronic outgoing payments. For instance, with my own account (that I use for online stuff and which has a direct deposit into it), except for 2 occasions, my bank has to call me for me for authorization for any attempted electronic withdrawals. Well, I should say my credit union; I don’t like banks too much. Anyway, you might want to see if your bank offers something similar, as well as discussing this with the branch manager and the AG. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/39 "2009-06-22T19:31:39Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > I suppose you’ve heard us lawyers talk about reasonableness before, let me give you a protip: unilateral invasions of a former employee’s bank account fall outside the ambit of “reasonableness.” This is total win. 🆒 So, in essence, this would be like them going to one’s house, walking through the door and taking back the paycheck? Isn’t there a term for that? Like burglary? Robbery? Something? I’m not sure what the electronic alternative would be, but I’m sure you can tell us. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586/40 "2009-06-22T19:33:06Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > I guess the OP’s employer could argue that the last deposit was made in error because they didn’t know he would quit the next day with an “outstanding debt.” What state are you in, OP? In CA, at least, an employer may not deduct such things from your pay. [cite](http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_Deductions.htm). It’s not specifically stated on that page, but I’d guess that if you can’t deduct from pay, taking it straight out of their bank account is something of a no-no, as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/direct-deposit-and-ohmygodyouhavetobekiddingme/500586.md?page=3)