# Dirigible Questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 24, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867 "2014-04-24T15:35:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/61 "2014-12-19T06:02:04Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > So why not a dirigible as a cruise ship of the air? Basically: slow, fuel inefficient, expensive, fragile. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/62 "2014-12-19T17:17:40Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > After looking through the H v. He arguments, a question occurs to me: as far as containment, does hydrogen call for gas bags made of a denser material than would be needed for helium? Even a small difference in thickness or material weight could make a really big difference in the weight of a huge gas bag. Hydrogen needs to be in a static-free envelope. With balloons, there is some weight penalty for this due to different materials. You still get more lift than with helium but not as much as is theoretically possible. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/63 "2014-12-19T18:14:25Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > _Sky Captain_ is an alternate NYC, and it’s the Hindenburg III. The TV show \*Fringe \*also had docking dirigibles on the ESB in its alternate universe… But of course: [Zeppelins from Another World - TV Tropes](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ZeppelinsFromAnotherWorld) > [@PastTense](#): > > So why not a dirigible as a cruise ship of the air? It seems like it would be interesting to explore the country that way. Required viewing: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCG22JdDqyk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCG22JdDqyk) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/64 "2014-12-19T18:34:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Hydrogen does have more lift than helium, but it’s not all that big a difference. Hydrogen has a molecular mass of 2, helium has a molecular mass of 4, and air has an average molecular mass of about 29. The lift is proportional to the difference between the lift gas and air, so hydrogen has a lift of about 27/25 times helium. It seems logical that heating the gas would enhance lift. Was this ever done? Intentionally? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/65 "2014-12-19T18:40:52Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Was this ever done? Yes - [a Rozière balloon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozi%C3%A8re_balloon). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/66 "2014-12-19T18:53:12Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Was this ever done? Intentionally? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/67 "2014-12-19T18:54:39Z")
[Airships](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airship)are still in use and development. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/68 "2014-12-19T19:13:33Z")
The real benefit of hydrogen over helium as a lift gas is that it’s a lot cheaper. Helium is precious in a way very few other substances on Earth are: Not only is there a very small amount of it, but if it’s lost, it’s completely irretrievable and irreplaceable. Even fossil fuels, say, could be replaced if we had some other source of energy to use for the process (plus the raw materials, but those are abundant), but you can’t just make more helium. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/69 "2014-12-19T20:55:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Helium is precious in a way very few other substances on Earth are: Not only is there a very small amount of it, but if it’s lost, it’s completely irretrievable and irreplaceable. … you can’t just make more helium. Not _precisely_ accurate: there are some or many who have moderate-to-high hopes for fusion power, which would at least theoretically make more helium. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/70 "2014-12-19T21:39:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The real benefit of hydrogen over helium as a lift gas is that it’s a lot cheaper. Helium is precious in a way very few other substances on Earth are: Not only is there a very small amount of it, but if it’s lost, it’s completely irretrievable and irreplaceable. Even fossil fuels, say, could be replaced if we had some other source of energy to use for the process (plus the raw materials, but those are abundant), but you can’t just make more helium. The earth’s atmosphere contains some, about 5 ppm. Though [this article](http://phys.org/news201853523.html) says extracting helium from air would cost 10,000 times more than what helium costs now. We could mine Jupiter for it, but I suspect that might be even more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![ThisOneGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/71 "2014-12-20T16:15:42Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > So why not a dirigible as a cruise ship of the air? It seems like it would be interesting to explore the country that way. People have tried (more local sight seeing than cruise ship): > **[Airship Ventures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airship_Ventures)** > > Airship Ventures Inc. was a private company that offered sight-seeing rides (which the company called "flightseeing") in a 12-passenger Zeppelin NT out of a World War II United States Navy hangar at Moffett Federal Airfield near Mountain View, California. > As of December 2012\[update\], their airship, built by Zeppelin Luftschifftechnik GmbH, is in a state of disassembly, but is still one of three zeppelins in the world. The ship was dedicated and christened Eureka at the 75th anniversary celebrati... They just didn’t manage to make money at it. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/72 "2014-12-20T18:17:45Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > This [modern one](http://gizmodo.com/the-aluminum-airship-of-the-future-has-finally-flown-1301320903) is projected to have a 66 ton payload using a helium system. I think something like that could work for aircraft manufacturing, Airbus in particular. Every time they have to move very large components from one factory to another its a major logistics operation. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/73 "2014-12-20T18:36:51Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Every time they have to move very large components from one factory to another its a major logistics operation. Maintaining a giant airship is not without its logistical hassles. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/74 "2014-12-20T22:24:40Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Maintaining a giant airship is not without its logistical hassles. And the Engineering Understatement of the Year Award goes to [rips open envelope]… **Xema**! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867/75 "2014-12-20T23:41:48Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > [rips open envelope] Kind of an unfortunate phrase for _this_ thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dirigible-questions/686867.md?page=3)