# Disappointed Liberals Moving to Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 27, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901 "2011-04-27T15:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/21 "2011-04-28T11:59:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That is an opinion, not a fact. I would argue that the first part is factually incorrect, but I don’t want to take this into a debate. I’ll even grant you some hyperbole about “John Birch” and you’re still wrong. Hyperbole, yes, but I was actually asking if anyone from the US had tried that angle. Your opinion means about as much as mine, which is to say nothing. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/22 "2011-04-28T12:12:45Z")
> [@](#): > > They did? I though hard-core conservatives favored “2nd amendment remedies” over fleeing to “liberal” Canada. How soon people forget. There was plenty of talk about this before Bill Clinton was elected. During the last election cycle, it was if _Hillary_ Clinton got elected: > **[Yahoo Search - Web Search](https://search.yahoo.com/)** > > The search engine that helps you find exactly what you're looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web. > **[What would YOUR response be to someone who says 'If Hilary Clinton is elected...](http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/398490)** > > Ask questions on any topic, get real answers from real people. Have a question? Ask it. Know an answer? Share it. (or to Mexico) > **[Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2232126958)** I remember a _lot_ of this, and find it telling that you don’t, and associate the meme with liberals. Selective memory is how such things get started, then perpetuated. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/23 "2011-04-28T12:30:46Z")
Just don’t think of coming now. It seems likely that we are about to elect a Conservative majority government on Monday. And this is not your old wishy-washy “Progressive Conservatives”, but Alberta based Conservatives. Alberta is sometimes called “Texas North”. After the 2004 election someone published a red-state/blue-state map of North America (a curious construct that excludes Mexico and anything south of that) in which the NE states, the NW states and all of Canada except Alberta was blue and everything else red. When I moved to Canada in 1968 it was a lot easier. Having a definite job offer was helpful. It is impossible to prove that someone is qualified for a job as a research mathematician unless they have a publication record to prove it. And then they are unlikely to apply for a job at the lowest rank and you can always say they are in the wrong field. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/24 "2011-04-28T13:43:59Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > [QUOTE=Cerowyn] > > And yet, Wikipedia cites a study that says that Canada has the highest per capita rate of immigration in the world. The target for 2010 was apparently 240,000 to 265,000 new permanent residents, fairly consistent with recent years. Contrast this with 1.27 million new American legal residents in 2006, or about half the rate of Canad What portion of those new permanent residents are coming in on refugee status, though? I think when people are talking it being hard to move to Canada they mean it’s hard to move to Canada to work. Since refugees do not have to prove all of the occupational requirements of non-refugees, the numbers don’t really tell much. What actually would be more telling is compare the entrance requirements for permanent residency in the United States versus the entrance requirements for Canada. [/QUOTE] According to [Citizenship and Immigration Canada’s 2010 Report to Parliament](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/annual-report2010/section1.asp#part1_1), the total number of immigrants anticipated for 2011 ranges from a low of 240,000 to a high of 265,000. Of those, the category of Protected/Compassionate/Other ranges from a low of 30,900 to a high of 38,200, so in the range of 12 to 15 %. Take those out, and you’re looking at a range of 209,100 to 226,800 - still a considerable number of immigrants. According to Stats Can, [the estimated population of Canada on January 1 2011](http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/110324/dq110324b-eng.htm) was 34,278,400. That gives a per capita immigration rate of between 0.61% to 0.66%. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/25 "2011-04-28T13:48:25Z")
A piece of related information I’d like to have is the percentages of Canadian immigrants from various countries. Are Americans a huge contribution to Canada? A tiny one? Bigger than China? Smaller than India? Inquiring minds want to know. Anybody got any data? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/26 "2011-04-28T18:23:15Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/27 "2011-04-28T18:42:30Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > A piece of related information I’d like to have is the percentages of Canadian immigrants from various countries. Are Americans a huge contribution to Canada? A tiny one? Bigger than China? Smaller than India? Inquiring minds want to know. > > Anybody got any data? The best I could find in a quick search is [this graph](http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/as-sa/97-557/figures/c2-eng.cfm) from Statscan showing immigrants by region during the years 1971-2006. It doesn’t break China and India out specifically (though it does the United States), but it will give an idea–for example, immigration from Asia is increasing, while immigration from the US and Europe is decreasing. There may be something more specific and recent out there, but this is the best I could do for now. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/28 "2011-04-28T20:01:49Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/29 "2011-04-28T20:57:52Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > Hyperbole, yes, but I was actually asking if anyone from the US had tried that angle. Your opinion means about as much as mine, which is to say nothing. You did more than ask a question. You stated: > [@](#): > > …the political/social environment is pretty hostile towards anyone to the left of John Birch anymore, Which is factually incorrect. You may correct me with a cite if you think I am wrong. > [@](#): > > and fairly necessary and reasonable benefits are getting slashing with extreme predjudice. That is an opinion, not a fact. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/30 "2011-04-28T22:25:27Z")
Beep…yes, I receive and understand…beep. Get off the clock, man. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/31 "2011-04-28T22:44:25Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > So threatening to up and leave for another country isn’t necessarily easy to carry out. I think a lot of Americans, regardless of political affiliation, think that getting into the US legally is kind of hard but don’t realize that we can’t just have our pick of the world to emigrate to. I think if you’re an Ivy League graduate this may not be so true…I know one such young person, with a master’s degree, who’s been pretty much writing her own ticket. Like Herbert von Karajan, she’s wanted everywhere, and seems to have her choice of vibrant and prosperous world class cities to live in. And a number of her friends seem to be doing equally well. I can’t give any more specifics, but I will say her field is _not_ the sort of thing we normally associate with this awesome demand and international mobility, like nanotechnology. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/32 "2011-04-28T23:02:36Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > According to [Citizenship and Immigration Canada’s 2010 Report to Parliament](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/annual-report2010/section1.asp#part1_1), the total number of immigrants anticipated for 2011 ranges from a low of 240,000 to a high of 265,000. Of those, the category of Protected/Compassionate/Other ranges from a low of 30,900 to a high of 38,200, so in the range of 12 to 15 %. Take those out, and you’re looking at a range of 209,100 to 226,800 - still a considerable number of immigrants. > > According to Stats Can, [the estimated population of Canada on January 1 2011](http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/110324/dq110324b-eng.htm) was 34,278,400. That gives a per capita immigration rate of between 0.61% to 0.66%. Of course what I’m actually interested in is comparing American immigration regulations to Canadian immigration regulations. For example, I do know that as a Commonwealth Country Canada has several countries to which its people can more easily emigrate and I believe those are reciprocal arrangements. But how hard is it, based on the regulations, for an American with no familial connection to Canada at all, and no special work ability (say this is a person who is gainfully employed in the United States but with no “highly demanded” job qualifications) to move to Canada and become a permanent resident? I’ll be honest I tried doing the research myself, and unfortunately both the Canadian and American immigration agencies have such byzantine websites with hundreds of different little sections that I immediately lost interest in doing the research myself when I checked into it. From what I can tell, the short answer is that it’s pretty much impossible for a Canadian to move to America “just because they want to” and the converse is also true. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/33 "2011-04-29T00:04:28Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’ll be honest I tried doing the research myself, and unfortunately both the Canadian and American immigration agencies have such byzantine websites with hundreds of different little sections that I immediately lost interest in doing the research myself when I checked into it. Googling “emigrating to Canada” gave [this link](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp) as the first match. It has all of the FAQs, forms and requirements for emigrating to Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/34 "2011-04-29T00:08:59Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Of course what I’m actually interested in is comparing American immigration regulations to Canadian immigration regulations. > > For example, I do know that as a Commonwealth Country Canada has several countries to which its people can more easily emigrate and I believe those are reciprocal arrangements. > > But how hard is it, based on the regulations, for an American with no familial connection to Canada at all, and no special work ability (say this is a person who is gainfully employed in the United States but with no “highly demanded” job qualifications) to move to Canada and become a permanent resident? > > I’ll be honest I tried doing the research myself, and unfortunately both the Canadian and American immigration agencies have such byzantine websites with hundreds of different little sections that I immediately lost interest in doing the research myself when I checked into it. > > From what I can tell, the short answer is that it’s pretty much impossible for a Canadian to move to America “just because they want to” and the converse is also true. Are you _asking_ for me to adopt you? 'Cause if you are, you should stop beating around the bush. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/35 "2011-04-29T03:46:02Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > A piece of related information I’d like to have is the percentages of Canadian immigrants from various countries. Are Americans a huge contribution to Canada? A tiny one? Bigger than China? Smaller than India? Inquiring minds want to know. > > Anybody got any data? From [the next page on that CIC site](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/annual-report2010/section2.asp) in my earlier link: > [@Citizenship & Immigration Canada](#): > > **Table 4: Permanent Residents Admitted in 2009, by Top 10 Source Countries** > > ```auto > > **Rank Country Number Percentage** > 1 People’s Republic of China 29,049 12% > 2 Philippines 27,277 11% > 3 India 26,122 10% > 4 United States of America 9,723 4% > 5 United Kingdom and Colonies 9,566 4% > 6 France 7,300 3% > 7 Pakistan 6,214 2% > 8 Iran 6,065 2% > 9 Republic of Korea 5,864 2% > 10 Morocco 5,222 2% > **Total Top Ten 132,402 53% > All Other Source Countries 119,777 47% > TOTAL 252,179 100%** > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/36 "2011-04-29T03:50:41Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Just don’t think of coming now. It seems likely that we are about to elect a Conservative majority government on Monday. And this is not your old wishy-washy “Progressive Conservatives”, but Alberta based Conservatives. Alberta is sometimes called “Texas North”. After the 2004 election someone published a red-state/blue-state map of North America (a curious construct that excludes Mexico and anything south of that) in which the NE states, the NW states and all of Canada except Alberta was blue and everything else red. In light of that map, it’s rather astonishing that Alberta is about to single-handedly elect a Conservative majority. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/37 "2011-04-29T03:55:16Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > On a related note, does anybody remember which celebrities threatened to move to Canada if Bush was reelected? There were at least a few. I’m pretty sure Whoopie Goldberg was one of them. Alec Baldwin was another. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/38 "2011-04-29T05:45:48Z")
Just chiming in as a dual: born and raised in the US, with an American father; I moved to Canada just because I wanted to (sorry, **Martin Hyde** ) with the aid of my heretofore unused dual citizenship. I only mention it here because that wouldn’t show up in **Northern Piper** ’s statistics, and I’m pretty sure my situation not unique. I’m equally sure that despite the fact that I’m a Canadian on paper, actual born-and-raised Canadians would consider me an American. I don’t even know how to play hockey! I also imported a Briton, who will show up in the stats. As a UK (=Commonwealth) citizen with a graduate degree, he qualified for immigration on his own merits, but sponsoring him family class saved a great deal of time and expense for us. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/39 "2011-04-29T10:49:47Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > Beep…yes, I receive and understand…beep. Get off the clock, man. This was unnecessarily snarky, and you’re right, John Mace. I let my irritation at Republicans get the better of me and that has no place in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901/40 "2011-04-29T17:06:49Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > … I think the last time I checked an online “are you someone we’re interested in” questionnaire for Canada, I was considered marginally acceptable but not in high demand (barely remember any French, work in medical research but not a doctor/PhD), and my non-French-speaking postal worker husband wasn’t a priority at all for them. Huh. Just for grins I just took the online test. Scored a 92/100 (minimum score for consideration is 67). Would have been 100 except I don’t speak French. Nice to know I have an out if things get messy here…🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disappointed-liberals-moving-to-canada/579901.md?page=3)