# Disaster for Israel **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925 "2014-02-09T21:43:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/41 "2014-02-10T02:52:51Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > As the only functioning democracy in the area, which has a significantly better track record in women’s rights and religious freedoms in their country and is a beacon for science and technological innovation, a very long time, I hope. Bingo. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/42 "2014-02-10T02:56:29Z")
Oy. I should probably just shut up but I’ll open my mouth anyway. As an American Jew, I get weary of being asked to defend some of the crappier actions of the Israelis. I don’t agree with many of the actions of the Israeli government and most certainly not with the actions of the extremist religious fanatics of the damned Haredim. I’m married to a non-Jew. I’ve been yelled at by five rabbis over the decision to marry a man who is not Jewish and did not convert. I would not have been allowed to marry my husband in Israel. I love many Jewish rituals but I also love a good ham and cheese sandwich. OTOH, I don’t see the Palestinians and their neighbors as better than the Israelis. The creeps who run Palestine are not exactly noted for their respect for women’s rights. Iran and Saudi Arabia and many other Islamic nations are vile, backwards, women hating theocracies that fill me with complete and utter disgust. As the mother of two daughters, their sexists can kiss my girl’s uteri. I don’t think all critics of Israel are anti-Semitic but do think a significant number of them are. Perhaps I’ve missed it but I don’t seem to recall the same sort of boycotts in the Islamic world directed towards Saudi Arabia as I do against Israel. There are a handful of Jews in the region and it seems as if all the criticism is centered around them. Half the time I honestly think the relentless, over the top criticism of Israel that I have encountered by Europeans time and time and time yet again – criticism that honestly drives me crazy – is motivated largely by attempts to downplay the fact that their not so distant relatives were directly complicit in the murder of millions of innocent Jews. I mean I read that the fucking Dutch were boycotting the Israelis and I could think was you people killed Anne Frank, you killed a big percentage of your own fucking citizens for being Jewish and you dare single out Israel? You assholes! I have friends who live in Israel. They’re mostly liberal people. Gay rights are often respected in Tel Aviv if not all the quarters of Jerusalem according to one of my friends. Israel is a deeply imperfect society in many ways but then again so are most countries. Then again I hate the fucking settlers. I hate the fact that a big chunk of the religious nutters who do nothing but study torah and father children all day expect Jews like me to support them in any way. I mostly try to stay out of discussions on this issue. I find that it is hard to steer a middle ground. I have no problem with a Palestinian society provided they are held to the same standards as the Israelis. I worry I don’t know that much about the subject even after five years of Hebrew school as a child and many years of study on my own since then so maybe I should myself shut the fuck up. What people like the OP don’t realize is that it is really is people like me they have to win over. How the hell do you expect to do that with language like the Zionist entity and that sort of bullshit? How the hell do you directly use obvious anti-Semitic code words and expect me to stand by your side? Why do you do this shit and expect support from me? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/43 "2014-02-10T03:00:24Z")
> [@Desert\_Dumpster](#): > > Also, Ibn Warraq seems to be a committed anti-Semite, so my reaction after reading his earlier posts was a bit polarized (and no, Ibn, I’m not Jewish). I’ve never read anything he posted that would lead to that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/44 "2014-02-10T03:06:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Oy. I should probably just shut up but I’ll open my mouth anyway. > > As an American Jew, I get weary of being asked to defend some of the crappier actions of the Israelis. I don’t agree with many of the actions of the Israeli government and most certainly not with the actions of the extremist religious fanatics of the damned Haredim. I’m married to a non-Jew. I’ve been yelled at by five rabbis over the decision to marry a man who is not Jewish and did not convert. I would not have been allowed to marry my husband in Israel. I love many Jewish rituals but I also love a good ham and cheese sandwich. > > OTOH, I don’t see the Palestinians and their neighbors as better than the Israelis. The creeps who run Palestine are not exactly noted for their respect for women’s rights. Iran and Saudi Arabia and many other Islamic nations are vile, backwards, women hating theocracies that fill me with complete and utter disgust. As the mother of two daughters, their sexists can kiss my girl’s uteri. > > I don’t think all critics of Israel are anti-Semitic but do think a significant number of them are. Perhaps I’ve missed it but I don’t seem to recall the same sort of boycotts in the Islamic world directed towards Saudi Arabia as I do against Israel. There are a handful of Jews in the region and it seems as if all the criticism is centered around them. Half the time I honestly think the relentless, over the top criticism of Israel that I have encountered by Europeans time and time and time yet again – criticism that honestly drives me crazy – is motivated largely by attempts to downplay the fact that their not so distant relatives were directly complicit in the murder of millions of innocent Jews. I mean I read that the fucking Dutch were boycotting the Israelis and I could think was you people killed Anne Frank, you killed a big percentage of your own fucking citizens for being Jewish and you dare single out Israel? You assholes! > > I have friends who live in Israel. They’re mostly liberal people. Gay rights are often respected in Tel Aviv if not all the quarters of Jerusalem according to one of my friends. Israel is a deeply imperfect society in many ways but then again so are most countries. > > Then again I hate the fucking settlers. I hate the fact that a big chunk of the religious nutters who do nothing but study torah and father children all day expect Jews like me to support them in any way. > > I mostly try to stay out of discussions on this issue. I find that it is hard to steer a middle ground. I have no problem with a Palestinian society provided they are held to the same standards as the Israelis. I worry I don’t know that much about the subject even after five years of Hebrew school as a child and many years of study on my own since then so maybe I should myself shut the fuck up. > > What people like the OP don’t realize is that it is really is people like me they have to win over. How the hell do you expect to do that with language like the Zionist entity and that sort of bullshit? How the hell do you directly use obvious anti-Semitic code words and expect me to stand by your side? Why do you do this shit and expect support from me? Nicely said. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Dumpster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Desert\_Dumpster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Dumpster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/45 "2014-02-10T04:38:09Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Make sure poor Redfury or poor Damuri doesn’t read this post. > > Anyway, please tell me what I’ve said that makes me “a committed anti-Semite”? > > Anyway, why would I possibly think you’re Jewish? > > FTR, I don’t take the accusation as an insult, merely an extremely stupid statement. 1. Because many of your posts I’ve read on other threads seem to be wholeheartedly against Israel (and the United States, to the extent that it supports that country). 2. Because many in the Arab world believe that a) no one would support Israel in any way unless they were Jewish and b) America is flooded with Jews, and that’s why America supports Israel (I can’t find it right know, but I remember one poll of Egyptian college students, wherein the respondents overestimated the percentage of Americans who were Jewish by something like a factor of thirty). I didn’t mean it as an accusation or an insult, but I don’t think it was stupid, either, just a reasonable inference from your posting history. If you are a friend of Israel and/or the United States, then, I apologize for the incorrect assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/46 "2014-02-10T04:48:38Z")
> [@Desert\_Dumpster](#): > > 1. Because many of your posts I’ve read on other threads seem to be wholeheartedly against Israel (and the United States, to the extent that it supports that country). Neither one of those is true, but even if either were true, that’s not the same as anti-Semitism. Lots of people have extremely negative opinions about Iran’s government but that hardly makes them bigots. > [@](#): > > 1. Because many in the Arab world believe that a) no one would support Israel in any way unless they were Jewish and b) America is flooded with Jews, and that’s why America supports Israel (I can’t find it right know, but I remember one poll of Egyptian college students, wherein the respondents overestimated the percentage of Americans who were Jewish by something like a factor of thirty). I’m not an Arab. I’m an Iranian-American. > [@](#): > > I didn’t mean it as an accusation or an insult, but I don’t think it was stupid, either, just a reasonable inference from your posting history. If you are a friend of Israel and/or the United States, then, I apologize for the incorrect assumption. I didn’t take it as an insult. I said it was stupid because it was. FTR, I’ll defend Israel, when appropriate and criticize Israel when appropriate. If it will make you feel better, there are also lots of people on this site who have ignorantly accused me of being an Israeli apologist including at least one who’s gone so far as to insist I was probably a paid agent of the Israeli government. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/47 "2014-02-10T05:07:49Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I think Turkey and Lebanon would object to the first(though thanks to four invasions by Israel as well as the Syrians they’ve had issues). As for “religious freedoms”, I’d rather be a Christian in Lebanon than in Israel and until the American invasion of Iraq and the current Syrian Civil War, I’d have said the same about them, with caveats. > > Sadly enough, one of the things we Muslims and the Israeli Jews have in common is we’re both very good at treating the region’s native Christians like shit and we’re having a stiff competition to see who can kick out more Christians quicker. dunno about wanting to be a Christian in Lebanon today. Maybe 30 years ago. I know a fair number of them who moved away and it was assuredly not for economic reasons. They didn’t want to leave their country. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/48 "2014-02-10T05:11:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > dunno about wanting to be a Christian in Lebanon today. Maybe 30 years ago. I know a fair number of them who moved away and it was assuredly not for economic reasons. They didn’t want to leave their country. That’s also true of Muslims there as well. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/49 "2014-02-10T15:10:39Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > \ > > If it will make you feel better, there are also lots of people on this site who have ignorantly accused me of being an Israeli apologist including at least one who’s gone so far as to insist I was probably a paid agent of the Israeli government. Where does one apply to be a paid agent? Is being ham-handed a disqualification? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/50 "2014-02-10T15:47:41Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > Where does one apply to be a paid agent? Is being ham-handed a disqualification? Try the nearest Synagogue. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/51 "2014-02-10T15:58:12Z")
Man, first Qatar is tossing the US out, and now Israel is doomed because Jordan doesn’t like them anymore? It’s been a rather grim week! I wonder when the Israelis will start packing up and moving out due to this international disaster? They probably need an exist strategy like the US does now that Qatar, our last ally in the region, is poised to toss us out and relegate us to annoying the Chinese and Russians, a duty we have been neglecting. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925/52 "2014-02-11T02:40:41Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Man, first Qatar is tossing the US out, and now Israel is doomed because Jordan doesn’t like them anymore? It’s been a rather grim week! I wonder when the Israelis will start packing up and moving out due to this international disaster? They probably need an exist strategy like the US does now that Qatar, our last ally in the region, is poised to toss us out and relegate us to annoying the Chinese and Russians, a duty we have been neglecting. Well, the Qatari protest he claimed was happening “now” apparently happened in 2012. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disaster-for-israel/680925.md?page=2)