# Discipline in the Royal Navy **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 23, 2018, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652 "2018-05-23T03:00:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Potestas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@Potestas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Potestas)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/1 "2018-05-23T03:00:46Z")
Is flogging/caning still on the books in the British Royal Navy (even though it might not be in practice?)? When was the last time it used? (If on the books is it prohibited by general orders or still available to commanders for use? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/2 "2018-05-23T03:26:32Z")
According to Winston Churchill, in 1913, _“The traditions of the Royal Navy are rum, sodomy and the lash”_. So it was current enough a century ago to have been referred to in such a quote. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/3 "2018-05-23T03:42:03Z")
Finally abolished in 1967. For some time before that it had been used only in naval prisons, on training vessels, and for juvenile seamen. ---
**Author:** ![Potestas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@Potestas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Potestas)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/4 "2018-05-23T03:56:57Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Finally abolished in 1967. For some time before that it had been used only in naval prisons, on training vessels, and for juvenile seamen. Got a source for that? I’d love to read up more on it ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/5 "2018-05-23T04:14:19Z")
Corporal punishment was abolished in the Royal Navy in 1947 for regular service sailors; the rules on floggings and whippings for Dartmouth are a bit hazier: 1967 was the year it was officially abolished, but there doesn’t seem to be any evidence that corporal punishment had been implemented for at least a decade before then. Only boys were regularly whipped at all for most of the twentieth century, after the outbreak of the Great War, it was mostly done away with for adult sailors. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/6 "2018-05-23T08:15:40Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > According to Winston Churchill, in 1913, _“The traditions of the Royal Navy are rum, sodomy and the lash”_. So it was current enough a century ago to have been referred to in such a quote. According to Churchill’s personal assistant Anthony Montague-Browne, he “never uttered such words.” When asked about the quote, Churchill responded: “_I never said it. I wish I had._” There are a great many [in]famous Churchill quotes around and I suspect that he would have said much the same about a lot of them. \*“Gentlemen, please, no fighting in the war room!” “Thank god for the French! If it wasn’t for them, the Germans would’ve never gotten bogged down in all that surrendering, and the Nazis would’ve crushed us by teatime last Thursday.” “Where the hell were you people? This war started years ago!” “When going to war, always be nice to the chaps who are fighting; they’re probably having a rough time.”\* ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/7 "2018-05-23T08:47:32Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > According to Churchill’s personal assistant Anthony Montague-Browne, he “never uttered such words.” When asked about the quote, Churchill responded: “_I never said it. I wish I had._” There’s another description of life at sea, used as the title for George Melly’s memoir: “Run, bum and concertina”. But which inspired which, we shall probably never know. ---
**Author:** ![GinoC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f4b2a3/32.png) [@GinoC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GinoC)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/8 "2018-05-23T14:33:44Z")
Every reference I have seen indicates flogging in the RN was abolished in 1879. It was the caning of boys that was officially abolished in 1967 since it was still in common use in the rest of society. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/9 "2018-05-23T14:46:42Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > According to Churchill’s personal assistant Anthony Montague-Browne, he “never uttered such words.” When asked about the quote, Churchill responded: “_I never said it. I wish I had._” > > There are a great many [in]famous Churchill quotes around and I suspect that he would have said much the same about a lot of them. That’s the one thing Winston Churchill and Yogi Berra have in common. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/10 "2018-05-23T16:36:50Z")
reminds me of this album [Rum Sodomy & the Lash - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Sodomy_%26_the_Lash) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/11 "2018-05-23T16:43:59Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > “Run, bum and concertina”. Those are my attorneys. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/12 "2018-05-23T20:27:58Z")
Boys… so what age range are we talking about? Currently it’s similar to the US with 16-36, under 18 requiring approval. US goes up to 40 now. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/13 "2018-05-23T20:39:27Z")
Well its certainly not what it used to be, given that you can get only eight years for this: > **[Royal Navy submariner jailed for trying to pass secrets to Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/dec/12/royal-navy-officer-jailed-russia)** > > Edward Devenney gave details of nuclear submarine movements to men he thought were Russian spies I imagine if he had been in the US Navy he would have received a rather different sentence. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/14 "2018-05-23T22:28:35Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > According to Churchill’s personal assistant Anthony Montague-Browne, he “never uttered such words.” When asked about the quote, Churchill responded: “_I never said it. I wish I had._” > > There are a great many [in]famous Churchill quotes around and I suspect that he would have said much the same about a lot of them. > > \*“Gentlemen, please, no fighting in the war room!” Although a great quote, this is from the film Dr. Strangelove uttered by President Merkin Muffley. The President was the legendary Peter Sellers (who played 3 parts in the film!) ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/15 "2018-05-25T14:33:55Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Although a great quote, this is from the film Dr. Strangelove uttered by President Merkin Muffley. The President was the legendary Peter Sellers (who played 3 parts in the film!) But, I can find several sources on the internet saying it was Churchill so it must be true. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discipline-in-the-royal-navy/814652/16 "2018-05-25T15:47:18Z")
[http://lh3.ggpht.com/-9uSUrf74wFA/U2FE7ecM3AI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/yHGrwEFJh64/fb-internet-lincoln-quote-960x720.jpg](http://lh3.ggpht.com/-9uSUrf74wFA/U2FE7ecM3AI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/yHGrwEFJh64/fb-internet-lincoln-quote-960x720.jpg)