# Discount pricing for women: legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 13, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042 "2010-06-13T20:47:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/41 "2010-06-15T13:34:35Z")
> [@LitWitLou](#): > > And aren’t the following discriminitory? > > “Kids get in free!” “Children under 12 eat for half-price!” “10% discount for senior citizens!” "College students 15% off with student ID! No, because there is no “protected class” in those cases. It is not against any law to discriminate on the basis of being in college (or any education level) being a minor, or being under the age of 55. It IS against many federal and state laws to discriminate on the basis of gender. The issue in haircuts is not exactly whether a man who wants a blowdry, perm, etc. will be charged a higher price. It’s whether a woman who DOESN’T want those services will be charged a lower “man cut” price. She won’t, generally. She will pay the higher “female” price regardless of service rendered. In NYC a study found over half of salons charged more for women than men _who received the same service_. (the practice is now illegal in NYC). I have seen salons that have a long hair/short hair price distinction, or have a pay structure that itemizes specific services. ($X for haircut; $XX for hair cut, shamppo & blowdry, etc). Both these systems strike me as more than fair, and don’t discriminate on the basis of gender. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/42 "2010-06-15T13:58:57Z")
> [@LitWitLou](#): > > And how about those signs that say, “We reserve the right to deny service to anyone?” If that’s legal than it’s a whole new ballgame we have here. Those signs are commonly misunderstood. They don’t mean “we reserve the right to deny service to a person for any reason.” They mean “we reserve the right to deny service to a person for no reason.” They are not _carte blanche_ to break the law. If you are excluding people based on sex or color or religion or any other protected status in your municipality, then you are still liable. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/43 "2010-06-15T14:08:10Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > And why is no one asking me whether I want some premium service that apparently ALL women automatically want? Because I don’t. I am fine with my clothes being more or less ironed ie, not visibly rumpled. It’s a stupid argument anyway. I don`t think I pay even $2 to have my shirts laundered and if I got one back with wrinkles I’d demand they do their job right, not assume I deserve it for paying the man rate. If some men walk around rumpled and wrinkled it’s not because their dry cleaner is giving them the lousy male level of service. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/44 "2010-06-15T14:55:15Z")
So how much do I pay for a woman and what is the discount? (sorry, someone had to do it… 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/45 "2010-06-15T14:59:04Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Let’s address it from the other side, and instead of offering women unequal incentives to go to bars, simply require them by law to do so, as well as that they buy their own drinks; with a 2-drink minimum (alcohol not mandatory) I can’t agree with that. The alcohol should definitely be mandatory. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/46 "2010-06-15T17:12:16Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > I’m going to guess that if a woman said “I’d like the same 4-minute haircut that you just gave that guy - at the same price” she’d probably get it. Whether she’d be happy with it is another question. When I was a kid, half the barber shops had signs that said, “Free crew cuts for women.” It was a joke but I don’t know if a woman ever actually got one. > [@Hello\_Again](#): > > …when I, a woman, bring in a perfectly ordinary, ruffle free button down Oxford shirt, and am charged $5 for dry cleaning, while a man’s Oxford, button-down shirt can be done for as little as $2 at the same place? In all seriousness, are you actually getting your shirts _dry cleaned_? Because I get mine laundered for around US$1.25. But dry cleaning costs much more. I will add that I have heard from women that if their husband takes the wife’s shirt in to be laundered, they charge the men’s price for the shirt just because they assume it’s a “men’s shirt” and not otherwise distinguishable. > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > However, I once worked with a gay fellow who made an interesting point. In his case, ladies nights amounted to him paying higher prices for drinks because he happened to be a dude, and he received no benefit at all from the increased numbers of women. There are two sides to that coin, and it never occurred to me before. Are bars with Ladies’ Nights deluged with large numbers of lesbians? Seems like the ideal situation–cheap drinks and all the women you can meet. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/47 "2010-06-15T17:23:48Z")
I never thought about lesbians getting free drinks before. Good catch, **Gas**. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/48 "2010-06-15T19:13:26Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > However, I once worked with a gay fellow who made an interesting point. In his case, ladies nights amounted to him paying higher prices for drinks because he happened to be a dude, and he received no benefit at all from the increased numbers of women. He felt the unfairness of the ladies night thing, in other words, far more keenly than I did. Plenty of straight guys would be in the same boat, really… ---
**Author:** ![LitWitLou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@LitWitLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LitWitLou)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/49 "2010-06-15T19:23:04Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > No, because there is no “protected class” in those cases. It is not against any law to discriminate on the basis of being in college (or any education level) being a minor, or being under the age of 55. It IS against many federal and state laws to discriminate on the basis of gender.. Geez. I know those discounts aren’t illegal. You can’t throw a rock without hitting one of those discount signs. Of course they’re not illegal. What I said was that they are discriminatory – and they are. If a college kid can pay 20% less for a meal than a high school kid how is that not discrimination in every way except legally? My point is that I don’t think the government should not be constraining business owners with this type of legislation. The business owner has a family to feed and bills to pay like everyone else – he should be able to use his best judgment. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/50 "2010-06-15T19:27:12Z")
But this isn’t Great Debates and we’re not talking about whether business owners should have the freedom to discriminate but whether discount pricing on the basis of gender is discrimination and whether it’s legal. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/51 "2010-06-15T19:38:11Z")
Only on the SDMB: People who by their usernames appear to be male, railing against the potential presence in a bar of a lot of cheap, drunken women. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/52 "2010-06-16T16:15:54Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Only on the SDMB: People who by their usernames appear to be male, railing against the potential presence in a bar of a lot of cheap, drunken women. By no means only on the SDMB: People (gender irrelevant) scornfully telling me that freeloading off me is somehow doing me a favour. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/53 "2010-06-16T20:41:36Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > even if it means bringing everybody down to the level of least common denominator. Do you mean “up” to the level of the least common denominator? Or down to the level of the highest common factor? The least common denominator of any two or more numbers is always equal to or greater than the largest. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/54 "2010-06-16T21:36:56Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Do you mean “up” to the level of the least common denominator? Or down to the level of the highest common factor? The least common denominator of any two or more numbers is always equal to or greater than the largest. Picky. :rolleyes: That’s a common colloquial expression that is not a direct analog to the literal math meaning. Usually people using it in the figurative sense say “lowest common denominator” to emphasize the connotations of “lowest” and “common” without regard to the relative ordinality of actual numbers. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/55 "2010-06-16T21:54:58Z")
I think they’re trying to fill up the bar with low common denominators so the numerators that are regular patrons can get on with making fractions as the night progresses… ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/56 "2010-06-16T22:12:24Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I think they’re trying to fill up the bar with low common denominators so the numerators that are regular patrons can get on with making fractions as the night progresses… Sounds perfectly rational to me! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/57 "2010-06-16T22:58:40Z")
> [@LitWitLou](#): > > And aren’t the following discriminitory? > > “Kids get in free!” “Children under 12 eat for half-price!” “10% discount for senior citizens!” "College students 15% off with student ID! “Kids get in free” is typically seen in hotels, where the net additional cost of a kid staying with the adult is zero. Also, everybody used to be a kid, so it’s not discriminatory - we all get the discount for a little while. “Children under 12 eat for half-price!” is, again, based on cost. Children under 12 eat less. Children are not a protected class under discrimination laws. You’re allowed to have adults-only apartment complexes, stores and restaurants that don’t allow kids, and refuse to sell them certain items. Heck, you’re _required_ to refuse to sell them certain items (e.g., cigars and booze). Throw 'em a bone once in a while with some cheap food. As for the college students, that’s a choice people make, and I don’t see a problem with basing bonuses on it. You want the 15% discount? Sign up for the college! Others will, I’m sure, disagree with me on the basis that it’s discriminating against people without the money and/or ability to get into the college. Also, my own test above (would it be okay to charge college students 15% _more_?) says that one is no good. But who says I have to be consistent? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/58 "2010-06-17T00:17:56Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:57, topic:543042”] …You’re allowed to have adults-only apartment complexes… [/QUOTE] I know senior citizens’ communities are allowed to reguire residents to be over 55, but I was under the impression that it was illegal for a landlord to refuse to rent an apartment to a family with children. In the past (ie before the '60s) it was quite common for leases to have no-children clause, but I don’t think that’s legal anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/59 "2010-06-17T02:34:32Z")
Welcome to the Straight Dope, Lou. I heard some of your arguments back in the Fifties when there were Jim Crow Laws. I didn’t like them then either. I’d rather pay full price for a drink and not feel like I’m being used to get men in your bar. Of course, most of them would be on the Serious Last Call List anyway. You’ve got your bar. I’ve got my pride. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042/60 "2010-06-17T06:02:05Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > > [@md2000](#): > > > > I think they’re trying to fill up the bar with low common denominators so the numerators that are regular patrons can get on with making fractions as the night progresses… > > Sounds perfectly rational to me! Oh my… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discount-pricing-for-women-legal/543042.md?page=4)