# Discounting the Near Omnipotent/Invincible, Who's the Most Powerful DC & Marvel Hero? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 14, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650 "2004-11-14T02:31:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/1 "2004-11-14T02:31:28Z")
It’s hard to say what’s near-invincible and/or near-omnipotent… it’s one of those cases where you know it when you see it, I guess. I’d include people like Superman, Apocalypse, Hulk, Xavier, or anyone that’s generally considered to be the be-all-and-end-all of his particular class… i.e. Hulk’s the strongest, Xavier’s got the best telepathy, Supes is ridiculously overpowered, etc, and so on. Anyway, anyone have any ideas? If forced to pick someone, I think I’d pick Dr Strange but I’m pulling that completely out of my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/2 "2004-11-14T02:41:03Z")
If you’re pulling strange things out o your ass, get medical attention. You’re going to have to pick categories if you want relative rankings, and even then you’d get arguments over who’d win in a fight between, say, Thor and Superman. One rarely sees characters use all their powers, even when it could be suitable to do so. Superman, for example, possess speed rivalling that of Flash, so one would think no-one could ever land a punch on him. There’s no reason for Supes to be getting into these ridiculous slugests when he can casually dodge, but he does anyway. I’d give The Spectre the edge in the DC universe (without getting into cosmic entities), but at what point does your “near omnipotent” discount kick in? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/3 "2004-11-14T02:43:03Z")
If the Sorceror Supreme isn’t considered near-omnipotent, we’re gonna have some trouble finding common ground, I fear. Restating the question: who is the “most powerful middleweight” character? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/4 "2004-11-14T03:19:55Z")
Bryan, dude…how does the incarnation of the Wrath of God not count as ‘near omnipotent’? Far as I can tell the ONLY check on his power is the fact that God won’t always let him act. He’s probably the most powerful being in the DCU aside from God Himself. DC… Discounting the Kryptonian, Martian, and Daxamite characters, the agents of divinity (Dr Fate\*, Spectre, Phantom Stranger, Deadman (although neither of those last seem all that powerful in and of themselves)), Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, the Green Lanterns, the Endless, the gods… (Damn, lots of good characters getting dq’d…) (\* Whether or not Nabu is a divine being, he does grant Fate a pretty amazing amount of power.) Hmm…options. Zatara and Zatanna are good options. Cigam nac od a tol. Element Lad of the Legion made himself a god during Legion Lost. His powers apparently allowed him to create life, and he can do a lot of other things, both creative and destructive, with them. On the other hand, he’s not indestructable, even in his immortal Tromium form, and he’s of merely mortal intelligence, so not beyond tricking. And he was pretty thoroughly insane by the time he developed his powers to their full potential. So I think he still counts. So…I think I’ll call EL my pick for the winner. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/5 "2004-11-14T03:30:15Z")
When Wizard (I know, I know) did this a few years ago, they picked Silver Surfer as #1. That still seems about right, since everyone I can think of more powerful than him seems to inhabit the realm of “omnipotence.” ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/6 "2004-11-14T03:45:39Z")
IMO, any space-faring herald of Galactus is probrably too powerful and needs to be taken out of consideration. On the other hand, there’s Iron Man. Power comes from cutting edge technology he himself devised, enhances his strength, senses, provides bodily protection, enables Mach-speed flight, submarine and outer space consideration, long-range offensive capabilities, a wide array of raw power, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/7 "2004-11-14T03:53:20Z")
On second thought, Dr Strange is obviously out as he’s the world’s premier wizard. I don’t know what I was thinking when I mentioned him. The “middleweight” classification would be a good way of looking at it, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/8 "2004-11-14T03:58:25Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > IMO, any space-faring herald of Galactus is probrably too powerful and needs to be taken out of consideration. What about those heralds of Galactus that have to rely on public transit to get around? Y’know, like the Golden Pedestrian and Novabus? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/9 "2004-11-14T04:02:19Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > When Wizard (I know, I know) did this a few years ago, they picked Silver Surfer as #1. That still seems about right, since everyone I can think of more powerful than him seems to inhabit the realm of “omnipotence.” [hijack, out of philisophical curiousity] What happens when 2 omnipotent beings face off against each other? Is it possible for one universe to have more than 1 omnipotent being at a time? [/h,ofpc] ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/10 "2004-11-14T04:03:33Z")
DC’s got dozens of them and it’s why I prefer Marvel. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/11 "2004-11-14T04:07:41Z")
Novabus? G–Damn, **Bryan,** what kindsa shit y’all be smoking in Montreal? **Morgyn** , more philosphical points to ponder: God moves in mysterious ways. But we accept that God is omnipresent, how can He move at all? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/12 "2004-11-14T04:15:12Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > God moves in mysterious ways. But we accept that God is omnipresent, how can He move at all? Maybe God is my ex-wife! Thank you, thank you very much. Try the veal. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/13 "2004-11-14T04:27:47Z")
Repeat: What. Kindsa, Shit. Y’all. Be. Smokin’. In. Montreal? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/14 "2004-11-14T04:30:44Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Novabus? G–Damn, **Bryan,** what kindsa shit y’all be smoking in Montreal? > > **Morgyn** , more philosphical points to ponder: God moves in mysterious ways. But [if] we accept that God is omnipresent, how can He move at all? I think they’re using “moves” in the sense of “takes action”. He’s not going anywhere, he’s just very, very busy. And mysterious. He’s mysteriously busy. Or maybe he’s just busy being mysterious, so we’ll all think he’s omnipotent when he’s just, you know, jerking our chains. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/15 "2004-11-14T05:20:26Z")
On the Marvel side of things, Franklin Richards and Nate Grey (RIP) were about as all-powerful as you could get without being omnipotent. Dark Phoenix should be in here somewhere, too. Dr. Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme of Earth. Interestingly, the #2 spot is held by none other than Doctor Doom! ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/16 "2004-11-14T06:11:19Z")
Little known fact about Doctor Doom is that he is also a magic user. Might have been nice if he had used it more often. In the Marvel Universe you’d have to consider the molecule man or Reed Richards (due to his cognitive ability). Dr. X is a good start and the Eternals aren’t bad either. The Ancient One is still around. Thor is fairly powerful and (supposedly) Beta Ray Thor even moreso. On the cosmic scale, the Celestials power seems to vary from writer to writer and then you have Marvel’s version of the word of God, the Living Tribunal. In D.C. you have Batman who is evidently omnipotent :rolleyes: Seriously, how can anyone suspend disbelife to the extent that they can accept Batman (or Captain America) as a superhero? I could kick his arse! Sorry, rant over. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/17 "2004-11-14T08:16:34Z")
> [@](#): > > IMO, any space-faring herald of Galactus is probrably too powerful and needs to be taken out of consideration. For anyone who’s interested (and yes, it’s bad that I remember this from, like, 7th grade), the rest of Wizard’s list was (from weakest to strongest): Hulk Professor X Firestorm Spawn (this was back when Spawn still had the finite powers thing going on, I have no clue what’s going on with the character lately) Dr. Strange Flash Wonder Woman Superman Thor Silver Surfer Runners up were people like Green Lantern (back when it was the inexperienced Kyle Rayner), Thing, Captain Marvel, Iron Man, Invisible Woman, etc. ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/18 "2004-11-14T12:05:34Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Seriously, how can anyone suspend disbelife to the extent that they can accept Batman (or Captain America) as a superhero? I could kick his arse! Not if Batman was prepared. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/19 "2004-11-14T13:08:07Z")
Guys, you really need to quit living in your parents’ basement… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650/20 "2004-11-14T18:00:58Z")
> [@](#): > > God moves in mysterious ways. But we accept that God is omnipresent, how can He move at all? That’s what’s so mysterious about it 😉 For the classification problem, how about we limit it to beings who work on a planetary scale? The Specter’s domain is all of creation, and the Green Lanterns are part of an intergalactic team, so we can eliminate them. Likewise, Galactus is an eater of worlds, so we can discount him and all of his heralds. But Professor X, say, rarely does much beyond Earth, or at most low Earth orbit. And Prof. X is certainly very powerful. In fact, the only real check on his power seems to be his own moral code. It would be trivially easy for him to control a few legislators, say, into repealing all of the anti-mutant laws, but he never does. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discounting-the-near-omnipotent-invincible-whos-the-most-powerful-dc-marvel-hero/274650.md?page=2)