Discovering the 'New World'

I am quite certain that Columbus knew of Greenland-he made a voyage to Iceland, around 1477 (a trading voyage where he would be picking up salted codfish). In Iceland, there were certainly people who knew of Greenland-the last recorded contact with Greenland was in 1470.
So it is not impossible that Columbus even met some ex-Greenlanders.
As for the disappearence of the Norse in Greenland-evidence suggests that sporadic contact with Norway/Iceland continued til about 1500-after which there is nothing.
This suggests that the colonists left enmass- Steffansson belives that many were abducted by english pirates, or simply returned to Iceland.
It is true that after 1500, Greenland became too cold to farm, and had the Norse stayed, they would have died.

And they were right. The leading figures of the day didn’t doubt the principles involved (Earth round, west eventually gets you east, that much was widely accepted egg or no egg), but Columbus’ calculations on the distances involved sucked and he was the only one not to realize this.

Had America not happened to be there, Columbus’ expedition would have died at sea with all hands thanks to their complete, stubborn moron of a captain. You know that cognitive bias where the more stupid and incompetent you are, the less you doubt yourself and the more you think you’re the most brilliant bulb in the room ? That’s Cristoforo Columbus to a T.

Things got complicated after Magellan’s expedition arrived in the Far East and they had to demarcate things on the other side of the world as well, which was finally done by the Treaty of Zaragoza in 1529 giving the Moluccas to Portugal and the Philippines to Spain.

Do you have a cite for this? A cursory google search doesn’t bring up anything. Is there hard evidence now?

Mostly cheap crap (cloth, glass, beads, and bells) that the Chinese would have laughed at, if Columbus had actually reached China. Vasco da Gama had the same problem upon reaching India; wealthy Indian merchants laughed at his trade goods and da Gama returned home with less cargo than he expected–but still enough to prove the value of the trade.

In defense of Columbus, his first voyage was in the nature of recon; he had no idea of the current state of Asian civilization or which goods would be most valuable. After he found out, he could return. It turned out his cheap crap was valuable after all, since he was trading with Caribbean hunter-gatherers.

I’d never heard of this, either. A friendly request… gotta cite?

Columbus said he went to Iceland, and Samuel Eliot Morison among others believed him. However I disagree with everything else ralph124c said about it. The last well-documented contact between Europe and Greenland was in 1410, there is no evidence that any Greenland survivors traveled to Iceland or anywhere else, and it’s unlikely Columbus heard anything about Greenland unless he attended saga recitals with a translator. If he did hear anything, it was likely in the nature of vague stories that sailors told about a million fictitious Atlantic islands.

Thanks! That was a new one on me.

Again, just my memory. IIRC - Scientific American I think it was had an article on items found in the area of Newfoundland - Labrador that indicated well-established fish curing camps, with things like Basque clay tiles. The dating put it at 1500 or earlier.

For fascinating trivia about the region (and NA wildlife in general) read Farley Mowat’s “Sea of Slaughter”.

I think the key factor was that the Viking settlements had no support base. Leif Ericson and Erik Thorvaldsson weren’t sailing on behalf of Iceland or Norway - they basically represented nobody but themselves. The only settlers and supplies they could bring to America were those they could personally obtain.

The latter successful colonization programs were supported by Spain or Portugal or England or France. People like Columbus had kingdoms behind them that were ready to put resources into any discoveries that looked promising.

No, the idea was that the dividing line was thought to separate the Old World and the New. Spain was supposed to get the Americas and Portugal was supposed to get Africa and India.

How did Columbus react to Magellan’s trip? I’m assuming he was still alive: “Guess I didn’t reach Asia after all?”

He was dead, Columbus died in 1506 and Magellan started his trip in 1519.

Oh.

I suppose I could’ve looked that up. :smack:

Somewhere, Dio is blaming the officials for Columbus’ fame.

:wink:

Magellan wasn’t even still alive by the time his expedition reached Asia proper, since he was killed in the Philippines. He didn’t even make it as far as the Spice Islands.

How did he buy the farm?

He allied himself with a local chieftain who had converted to Christianity, and then was persuaded to help him in an attack on the chieftain’s enemies. He was killed in the attack as he waded ashore.

Wiki quotes the account:

It was a stupid way for him to get himself killed.

Yes, it was.

Not quite as stupid as Captain Cook, who was killed in Hawaii in a squabble over a stolen ship’s boat.