# Discretion should override legal technicalities in American Judicial System **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 27, 2013, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015 "2013-06-27T07:50:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/21 "2013-07-09T19:52:01Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Yeah, Cardozo was an Associate Justice of SCOTUS. You’re probably thinking of [Learned Hand](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_Hand). Never heard of that guy! ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/22 "2013-07-09T19:55:02Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > Never heard of that guy! Sorry, I meant RNATB (and edited thusly). Hand is one of the best known jurists who never served on the Supremes. Many people who are familiar with him are surprised to hear that he never actually sat on the high court. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/23 "2013-07-09T19:59:13Z")
> [@The\_Lurker\_Above](#): > > If violating someone’s rights, whether they’re guilty or innocent, is either pointless or counterproductive then the state has no motive to do so. And punishing police/prosecutors is **hard**. > > At least those are the justifications I’ve heard. The rule is not so much focused on the case at hand, but on preventing rights violations systematically. Indeed. Which is not to say that there isn’t room for debate of the exclusionary rule(s), and whether some other mechanism might not be more effective. Me, I like the exclusionary rule, though I might combine it with some other deterrent as well–personal liability for officers/departments that violate rights, for example. Given the powerful incentive for police/prosecutors to be seen as ‘tough on crime’, as well as a myriad of issues that make law enforcement a hard target for other forms of redress, though, I’d never want to rely on monetary penalties alone. As to the OP, both of his ‘examples’ can be stripped down to this: He doesn’t agree with perhaps the single most honored principle of our criminal justice system, that the defendant is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Neither ‘example’ is a ‘legal technicality’ of the sort people typically complain of (i.e., illegal search, forced confession); rather, both are failures of evidence necessary to convict. In short, he appears to be arguing for justice by the mob, to be meted out against those everybody ‘knows’ are guilty and who ‘look like’ lunatics. While I recognize that I suffer from a certain conflict of interest as an officer of the court, albeit one who has never set foot in a criminal courtroom (and by the grace of god, never shall! ;)), I’ll have to say that for my money, we can stick with the neutral application of established law against well-defined standards of proof rather than, “we all **know** he did it!”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/24 "2013-07-09T20:05:04Z")
Is the OP under the mistaken impression that the SDMB is associated with Facebook? We actually question vague claims like yours-in Facebook jargon, we are “haters”. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/25 "2013-07-09T20:06:18Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > As to the OP, both of his ‘examples’ can be stripped down to this: He doesn’t agree with perhaps the single most honored principle of our criminal justice system, that the defendant is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The failure of a court to instruct a jury to such, in and of itself is not reversible error, but close to it. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/26 "2013-07-09T20:37:37Z")
> [@Ryan\_Musarra](#): > > America, as the leader of free liberal law, should spearhead the allowance of discretion to override unimportant legal mistakes made that jeopardize the case. The lawyer could be punished for the mistakes in another way Allowing this kind of discretion would be a good way not to stay the “leader of free liberal law” (whatever that is). If mistakes jeopardize the case, in all likelihood, they’re pretty important mistakes. The kind of “mistakes” that could make you end up with a long sentence despite not being guilty of anything. It’s all about protecting your rights and has nothing to do with “punishing the lawyer”. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/27 "2013-07-09T20:42:44Z")
> [@Ryan\_Musarra](#): > > obvious cases to be override because ultimate goal is prosecuting murder Many people consider giving defendants a fair trial to be an equally, if not more important goal. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/28 "2013-07-09T23:12:45Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > You must have him confused with another. > [@pravnik](#): > > Yeah, Cardozo was an Associate Justice of SCOTUS. RNATB is probably thinking of [Learned Hand](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_Hand). I am. But I was drunk. Or something. Seriously, I have no idea where that came from. I thought you had accidentally changed the name in the quote box when I saw it just now. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/29 "2013-07-10T01:32:34Z")
Eh, no biggie, counselor, don’t sweat it. This section is ungraded. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/30 "2013-07-10T05:44:54Z")
Well, he does admit that he’s not all that bright… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/31 "2013-07-10T15:21:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I am. But I was drunk. Or something. Seriously, I have no idea where that came from. I thought you had accidentally changed the name in the quote box when I saw it just now. :smack: I am always drunk Not really! ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015/32 "2013-07-10T15:26:32Z")
I knew he was a Justice as he authored Palko, which was later overturned by Benton/Maryland, the study of Incorporation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discretion-should-override-legal-technicalities-in-american-judicial-system/662015.md?page=1)