WRT the quote in question, the best analogy would be “It is my firm belief that no one can survive that experience without a belief in God.” To which I, as an atheist, would respond: “That’s nice. How about them Yankees?”
John Mace, I don’t see any meaningful difference between your distinctions.
His opinion is that people without faith cannot be the president, regardless of whether he adds a qualifier or not. It does not change the fact that he believes that if you don’t believe in Jesus you won’t be a good president.
“You can’t be a good parent if you’re a man.”
“It is my opinion you can’t be a good parent if you’re a man.”
Both sentences mean exactly the same thing, and bleating “it’s only my opinion!” doesn’t change the fact that it’s ignorant and insulting. You wouldn’t say it as a fact if you didn’t believe it. By adding a qualifier it’s saying at best “I know it’s not a fact, but I believe it anyway.”
Pretty damning either way, AFAIC.
DesertGeezer–Madalyn O’Hair was murdered because of some bizarre embezzlement plot, not her atheism. And her murder is very much solved:
Weird little laws? It’s the state Constitution! You don’t think it might be a little, you know, important?
Are you saying you are particularly harsh on “self-centered atheists” (whatever they are), even more than child molesters? Coz you have them mentioned specifically.
Caution: Some of the provisions which “discriminate” against atheists have been superseded. If you follow the link to the Massachusetts Constitution in the OP, it’s clear that the language about equal protection applying only to Christians has been superseded by amendment.
Most state constitutions, like the federal, accumulate the amendments at the end rather than incorporating them into the body of the text. To cite the amended provisions as if they are still in force would be like quoting the parts about “persons held to servitude” to argue that the U.S. Constitution still countenances slavery today.
I discriminate against hate mongers too, thus I don’t like you Milum. One who compares people of different religious persuasions to child-molesters and racists is certainly a hate monger. I also discriminate against those who do not back up their argument logically. Please explain how atheists are by their nature self-centered as compared to theists.
You got it in two. Given that it’s often hard to pass a bill that both parties agree to unanimously without someone tacking on a controversial provision or otherwise turning the whole affair into another long winded waste of time, there is little political will to go around “correcting” silly laws that nobody enforces anyway, have already been superceded by later laws, or have been stuck down by courts.
In most cases these are just urban legends. Snopes covers it here.
“Correcting” a state Constitution takes a special procedure. If it is done by legislative initiative, it involves either a supermajority of the legislature passing it, or two successive distinctly-elected assemblies passing it, and THEN submitting it to the voters for ratification. jklann also points out, very appropriately, that various states, like the Federal government, do NOT strike the original text of the constitution when amending it. They just add newer articles that supercede the old text.
These articles would be unenforceable. However, courts tend to limit the initiative in issuing a challenge to them to persons able to claim an actual harm was done to them – e.g. the gentleman who ran for Governor and the court told him to wait until someone actually tried to prevent him from taking office.
Do you think it should be against the law for an atheist to hold elected office?
I didn’t mean to sound excessively snippy, but the whole Rob Sherman/G.H.W. Bush thing has been hashed out several times now on the SDMB, and it is sort of a different issue from the one raised by minega in starting this thread.
To those pointing out the difficulty of amending state constitutions (and at least some of the anti-atheist provisions have not been repealed, although they may have been rendered null by court decisions): Do you think the same arguments would be made against a state constitutional provision barring Jews or Roman Catholics from holding office? Even if a court decision had rendered such a provision moot, I rather suspect there would still be a strong drive to have it repealed.
Thank you Opus1 for straigtening DesertGeezer out. I thought he was wrong but am at work and don’t have a lot of time to search.
Titobenito
I’m hurt, Titobenito, I like you. But I do wonder why you call me a hate monger. Do you have trouble with the english language? The act of discriminating is not hating, discrimination against beliefs that impede the achivement of a worthwhile existence is a most commendable act and should be encouraged by all.
And why, you ask, are atheists self centered? God only knows, but it is obvious that they are. Why, I ask you, do they preach and pitch their non-message of first cause and creation to all who will listen and condemn those who don’t agree. I think that their social developement has somehow gone awry and so they think that if they admit to the possibility of a deity, even an symbolic one, their reign on earth might end and they would then be forsed to come down to the community of man and become mortal.
Besides, most atheists are unpleasant.
And no,Mr. Bruckner, I have no objection to an avowed atheist public holding office. That’s silly. Atheism is just a non-belief non-system analogous to the choice one makes when one decides not to own a dog. And although atheism marks one as not the brightest turtle in the tank, I wouldn’t hesitate to vote for an atheist for public office. The bible-toting polititians we elect year after year aren’t very bright either.
Milum how do you come to the conclusion that “atheism marks one as not the brightest turtle in the tank” ?
Would you, expect an Atheist to be more or less intelligent, on average, to a follower of Sun Myung Moon?
What about compared to a Scientologist, or Hindu, or a Muslim, or a Catholic, or a Protestant?
So, a self-described “devout Christian” starts a thread on provisions of state constitutions in the U.S. which clearly and explicitly deny the equal civil and political rights of atheists based on their beliefs, and Milum–who now claims to be opposed to such anti-atheist legal bigotry–jumps into the thread to gratuitously bash atheists.
And he has the gall to call us “self-centered”.
Bippy the Beardless
Ah yes, Bippy, I hesitated to include the answer to your question in my last post because I was afraid I would be accused of stating the obvious, so I am glad you asked.
Atheists are dumb because they are not smart. If they were smart they would be*** agnostics***. Follow the logic…
Something exists.
The human mind can’t concieve of something coming from nothing.
An agnostic would simply say that it is impossible to understand how something came from nothing.
Atheists deny the existence of a creator, a primecause, a mathematical process, or anything, that could somehow make something.
Now that’s dumb.
But don’t underestimate atheists.
They are are arrogant and think they know it all.
“The human mind can’t concieve of something coming from nothing.”
Ah, yes, the atheists are the stupid ones… :rolleyes:
Milum, you should talk to the quantum physicists about the quantum foam. These dummies actually think something comes from nothing! Go set 'em straight.
Reminds me of someone.
Never have done any of those things, mostly because I really don’t care much for what others beleive.
Thats because we don’t live in a tank, we live in ponds.
No, I don’t have a problem with the English language. I still think comparing atheists to child molesters and racists definately hints of hate mongering.
Lastly, although I am truely sorry you are hurt, I still don’t like you. Mostly for every reason you claim for why you dislike atheists.
Also, if your posts are a parody of someone with poor logic, it’s brilliant. Bravo!
** Revtim**
:)__ Oh do they now, Revtim, say… perhaps those quantun dummies told you how they did it and you can tell all the atheists here how its done.
Then maybe our atheists here will make you and them quantum theorists their official gods and then they can stop being bitter, unhappy, self-centered atheists.__ 