# Discrimination against Scandinavian-Americans **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 5, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738 "2015-06-05T20:32:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/1 "2015-06-05T20:32:55Z")
Does anyone have good examples or references on discrimination of of Scandinavian immigrants in America, presumably in the 19th and early 20th century when the main immigration waves occured? And: Does anyone know when the notion of an “Aryan race” originated? Apolgies but I just don’t want to wade through the results of typing “aryan race history” into a search engine. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/2 "2015-06-05T21:25:28Z")
According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_American#Stereotypes), Swedes were the subject of racist stereotypes. Apparently they were seen as of below average intelligence and to smell of herring. The underlying citation is to a book so I can’t say if that’s accurate or not, but the [World Heritage Encyclopedia](http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/swedish_american) makes a similar claim. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/3 "2015-06-05T21:27:19Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Does anyone have good examples or references on discrimination of of Scandinavian immigrants in America, presumably in the 19th and early 20th century when the main immigration waves occured? My father was a Scandinavian immigrant. I have never heard of him or any other northern European being discriminated against. Perhaps they got a bye because of association in the popular mind with the New York Dutch and Pennsylvania Germans (who were called “Dutch”), those two groups having been settled here well before the Revolution, and thus being among the original citizens of the new country. > [@Grim\_Render](#): > > And: Does anyone know when the notion of an “Aryan race” originated? Apolgies but I just don’t want to wade through the results of typing “aryan race history” into a search engine. I believe the word is derived from “Iran(ian)”, which I gather is what ancient Persian/Iranians called themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/4 "2015-06-05T21:41:43Z")
There was [this](https://cacb.wordpress.com/2010/06/05/superboy-says-know-your-country/). ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/5 "2015-06-05T22:01:37Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > I believe the word is derived from “Iran(ian)”, which I gather is what ancient Persian/Iranians called themselves. Other way around, mostly. “Iranian” derives from the sasnkrit ārya. Actually, it’s close enough you could argue it’s the exact same word, just with a heavy accent. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/6 "2015-06-05T22:06:50Z")
My great-grandparents changed their family name to something English when they arrived from Denmark, out of concern that “Hansen” was too ethnic. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/7 "2015-06-05T22:21:14Z")
As a (somewhat) Norwegian-American, I always thought [Ole and Lena](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_and_Lena) jokes were terrifically funny, but clearly they’re in the same vein as polack jokes. (Yes, I’m using the politically incorrect name, because we’re asking about political incorrectness.) ETA: > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > My great-grandparents changed their family name to something English when they arrived from Denmark, out of concern that “Hansen” was too ethnic. Huh. I’m also somewhat Swedish-American, and my Swedish forebear was an unapologetic Hansen. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/8 "2015-06-05T22:33:29Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > Perhaps they got a bye because of association in the popular mind with the New York Dutch and Pennsylvania Germans (who were called “Dutch”), those two groups having been settled here well before the Revolution, and thus being among the original citizens of the new country. Is / was this a thing? Associating Scandinavians with the Dutch and the Pennsylvania Germans? How did that happen? > [@gnoitall](#): > > Huh. I’m also somewhat Swedish-American, and my Swedish forebear was an unapologetic Hansen. Go figure. Not Hansson? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/9 "2015-06-05T22:39:30Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Is / was this a thing? Associating Scandinavians with the Dutch and the Pennsylvania Germans? How did that happen? They’re all white Protestant Northern Europeans who speak a Germanic language. Actually, the derogatory term “squarehead” is applied both to Germans and Scandinavians. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/10 "2015-06-06T00:54:16Z")
A long (6’) heeled pry bar used on the railway to lift ties and rails and to pry up spikes was often called a Swede bar, after Swedish immigrants who worked on railways in the first 2-3 decades of the 20th century. Such work was considered unskilled and fit for ignorant labourers, thus the nickname. Ditto for logging and the “Swedish fiddle,” a crosscut saw. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/11 "2015-06-06T01:45:43Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Other way around, mostly. “Iranian” derives from the sasnkrit ārya. Actually, it’s close enough you could argue it’s the exact same word, just with a heavy accent. Here is what appears to be a lengthy, learned article focusing mainly on Iranian/Persian use of the word: [ARYA an ethnic epithet in the Achaemenid inscriptions and in the Zoroastrian Avestan tradition.](http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/arya-an-ethnic-epithet) Apparently the word was among other things associated with Iranian/Persian royalty, and means something like “owner”, “possessor”, or “lord”. The article mentions Sanskrit occurrence of the word, but does not say if the Iranian version was a borrowing from Sanskrit, or if both Sanskrit and Persian versions are descended from a common ancestor. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/12 "2015-06-06T02:08:50Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > They’re all white Protestant Northern Europeans who speak a Germanic language… The English are also a predominantly Protestant Northern European people who speak a Germanic language… ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/13 "2015-06-06T02:11:17Z")
Here is another article from the Encyclopedia Iranica on the precise word [Aryans](http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/aryans). (from link): > [@](#): > > ARYANS. Definition of the term “Aryan.” The name “Aryan” (OInd. āˊrya-, Ir. \*arya- [with short a-], in Old Pers. ariya-, Av. airiia-, etc.) is the self designation of the peoples of Ancient India and Ancient Iran who spoke Aryan languages, in contrast to the “non-Aryan” peoples of those “Aryan” countries (cf. OInd. an-āˊrya-, Av. an-airiia-, etc.), and lives on in ethnic names like Alan (Lat. Alani, NPers. Īrān, Oss. Ir and Iron. “Aryan” is thus basically a linguistic concept, denoting the closely related Indo-Aryan and Iranian languages (including Nūrestānī), which together form the Indo-Iranian or Aryan branch of the Indo-European language family, sharing a linguistic and cultural development separate from the other IE. tribes. … > > The linguistic history and the history of their religion and culture indicate that the Aryans (Indo-Iranians) must originally have formed one single people. Only about the beginning of the 2nd millennium B.C. did their unity split up, when Indo-Aryans and Iranians went separate ways. … I had thought that “Aryan” was originally an exact scholarly synonym for “Indo-European.” Apparently, though, as a linguistic term “Aryan” referred only to the easternmost groups of Indo-European speakers. To my ear “Aryan” is more euphonious than Indo-Iranian, but the latter is more descriptive, and the former will never recover from its association with Nazism, even though the Nazis stole it and perverted it from its original meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/14 "2015-06-06T02:22:28Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > The English are also a predominantly Protestant Northern European people who speak a Germanic language… I didn’t think it was really necessary to qualify that as a “non-English Germanic language.” ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/15 "2015-06-06T02:45:34Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I didn’t think it was really necessary to qualify that as a “non-English Germanic language.” A surprisingly large number of people don’t know that English is a Germanic language. > [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > … > I had thought that “Aryan” was originally an exact scholarly synonym for “Indo-European.” Apparently, though, as a linguistic term “Aryan” referred only to the easternmost groups of Indo-European speakers. To my ear “Aryan” is more euphonious than Indo-Iranian, but the latter is more descriptive, and the former will never recover from its association with Nazism, even though the Nazis stole it and perverted it from its original meaning. I similarly thought that the term “Aryan” came out of early Indo-European research and its discovery that Sanskrit, Persian/Farsi, Greek, Latin, Germanic languages, Celtic languages, etc. were all related. If the languages are all related, then maybe the people who speak those languages are too, and form some sort of super-race of smart people who have set up many of the most awesome civilizations on Earth. ---
**Author:** ![CraterLayer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/87869e/32.png) [@CraterLayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CraterLayer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/16 "2015-06-06T05:28:46Z")
The Muppet Show turned all of my children into racists against Swedes. Especially Chefs. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/17 "2015-06-06T07:57:23Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > They’re all white Protestant Northern Europeans who speak a Germanic language. Makes sense, I suppose, from an American perspective. For comparison: When the Dutch arrived in Denmark in the 16th century, they were considered total aliens, and it took them centuries to assimilate. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/18 "2015-06-06T11:40:39Z")
Thank you all. The reason I asked is that I’ve seen cartoons from that time trying to redefine the Irish as black. And some stuff about discrimination of Scandinavians. While there was obviously a firm white/black distinction at the time, things like the Irish being considered black and no-one selling insurance to Norwegian immigrants (Thats how the Sons of Norway started), it made me wonder at how various immigrant groups at the time were ethnically discriminated against that today would be seen as entirely white. When did the concept of …“sub-races” for want of a better word, Aryans and Mediterraneans and Slavs, get established in the public consiousness? ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/19 "2015-06-06T12:02:05Z")
> [@CraterLayer](#): > > The Muppet Show turned all of my children into racists against Swedes. Especially Chefs. The Swedish Chef is probably Norwegian. > **[What Do Swedes Think of the Swedish Chef?](https://slate.com/culture/2012/08/swedish-chef-what-do-swedes-think-of-him-they-think-he-sounds-norwegian.html)** > > If you’ve ever met a Swede, chances are you asked her the following question: “What do you think of \[ABBA/Ikea/The Girl with the Dragon... ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738/20 "2015-06-06T12:03:39Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Thank you all. The reason I asked is that I’ve seen cartoons from that time trying to redefine the Irish as black. And some stuff about discrimination of Scandinavians. Bonus trivia: Benjamin Franklin thought of the Swedes as being [“generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion.”](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2008/02/swarthy-germans/48324/) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-against-scandinavian-americans/721738.md?page=2)