# Discrimination in the US: how bad did the Irish have it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 19, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769 "2020-07-19T21:22:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/21 "2020-07-20T22:51:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I suspect an Irish Protestant without an accent would claim English or Scottish ancestry. > > I do know that my Irish Catholic relatives would claim to be of English background if they thought that would be advantageous - it wasn’t until my generation that people started “admitting” they were Irish. My mom was old enough to remember help wanted signs in St. Louis stating “Blacks and Irish need not apply.” Which was perfectly legal discrimination back in the day. > > But being Irish and white was still better than being anything and Black. FWIW … My wife’s long-deceased grandparents were all Italians who arrived in the US as adults between 1900 & 1910. Your story pretty well echoes what my aged MIL has said of her parents’ lives and her life growing up in the 20s & 30s. If you had an accent you were unemployable in established “white” businesses which is why so many immigrants turned to entrepreneurship, even if it was just pushing a vegetable cart. The next generation, my US-born MIL did OK as long as nobody knew they were Catholic. But still they had a fairly insular culture; definitely separate and not at all equal. By my wife’s generation born in the 1950s Italian was just another mostly-irrelevant detail within white America. But slurs about mafiosi, greasy hair, or pasta were common experiences as a grade-schooler in the early '60s. 150+ years later Blacks are still stuck at square one when it comes to acceptance as a legitimate part of America. At least for many of them in much of our beknighted country. Would that it were not so! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/22 "2020-07-20T23:41:27Z")
“Had” or “have”? Do we not still have a day where the whole country gets dressed up in “green face” and celebrates all the negative stereotypes of being Irish?! Do colleges still not use Irish caricatures as sports mascots? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/23 "2020-07-21T09:23:43Z")
Yes, but in day to day life the amount of discrimination faced by the Irish and Irish-Americans in the US is pretty minimal to non-existent. It is in no way comparable to what is endured not just by Black people but also Latinx, Asian, Muslims, and other groups. ---
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/24 "2020-07-21T13:12:40Z")
The obvious massive fundamental difference is that the Irish didn’t come over as captured slaves against their will. They were economic refugees seeking a better life. Some were indentured servants, but that was it. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Anti-Irish sentiment still lingers - I once dated a young man from Cicero, Illinois of a Polish family, with the elderly aunts and grandparents being from the old country. It would be interesting to delve in that sentiment more. I come from a Polish background and they also disliked the Irish, but it was because of the big anti-eastern European hated _the Irish had for them_. I’m told (anecdotally by my family) the British class system came to the new world in full force than the Brits were at the top, the Scots and then the Irish. When the wave of Eastern European immigrants arrived in the start of the 20th century, the Irish took great pleasure in abusing them since they finally had people lower than them on them “pecking order”. My father and uncles harboured huge anti-Irish sentiments all their lives. They had many stories and of being beat up daily by Irish gangs when in high school. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/25 "2020-07-21T14:01:22Z")
> [@GMANCANADA](#): > > the Brits were at the top, the Scots and then the Irish Do you mean English? Because Scots are obviously Brits too. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/26 "2020-07-21T14:52:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Although prejudice against Irish Catholics gradually faded, it still was a factor when I was growing up in the 1960s. When JFK ran, it was still thought that his Catholicism was an obstacle to his being elected. (The only previous Irish Catholic candidate for president, Al Smith, was defeated in a landslide in 1928.) Catholics named to judgeships still sometimes get questioned about their religion during confirmation proceedings. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/27 "2020-07-21T16:46:01Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > “Had” or “have”? > > Do we not still have a day where the whole country gets dressed up in “green face” and celebrates all the negative stereotypes of being Irish?! Do colleges still not use Irish caricatures as sports mascots? What day would that be? Because St. Patrick’s day doesn’t celebrate “all the negative stereotypes of the Irish.” Sure a lot of people get drunk, but they do that on Cinco de Mayo too. People celebrate the positive stereotypes too! While it’s true that certain sports teams have a pugnacious ginger dwarf as a mascot, I’m not aware of any Irish-Americans who take offense at it. ---
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/28 "2020-07-21T22:19:53Z")
Probably, but it was all the same to the Polacks since it was like looking up into the blinding sun. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/29 "2020-07-22T04:09:44Z")
As a slice of completely uninteresting western European Wonderbread. I almost take offense at this. Some of us toast nicely brown in the sun, and end up no more reflective than the average human when properly maintained. 🤡 ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/30 "2020-07-22T07:56:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > While it’s true that certain sports teams have a pugnacious ginger dwarf as a mascot, I’m not aware of any Irish-Americans who take offense at it. Have you asked any actual Irish? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/31 "2020-07-22T13:26:47Z")
Have you? As I matter of fact, I have known quite a few “actual” Irish, and none have expressed any offense at such images. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/32 "2020-07-22T13:41:44Z")
I’ve never been precisely offended by such mascots, but I have been somewhat bemused by a person complaining about the Cleveland Indians, while wearing Notre Dame shorts and a Boston Celtics shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/33 "2020-07-22T14:42:51Z")
This thing about discrimination against the Irish is usually brought up to imply that if Irish-Americans could overcome discrimination to become mainstream, then there’s no excuse for other kinds of Americans, in particular Black Americans, to fail to do the same thing. The implication is that it’s their fault for their failure to improve themselves. This conveniently ignores a lot of other factors, including the fact that after a while, Irish-Americans were admitted into whiteness, as were Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans, and other groups that were initially excluded. Black Americans have never been extended that privilege. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/34 "2020-07-22T14:52:52Z")
After you destroyed them for their hypocrisy, did the rest of the store break out in applause? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/35 "2020-07-22T15:01:53Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Do we not still have a day where the whole country gets dressed up in “green face” and celebrates all the negative stereotypes of being Irish?! Do colleges still not use Irish caricatures as sports mascots? Maybe, but I can say with certainty that there are a lot of Irish Americans that _really_ dig that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/36 "2020-07-22T15:03:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This thing about discrimination against the Irish is usually brought up to imply that if Irish-Americans could overcome discrimination to become mainstream, then there’s no excuse for other kinds of Americans, in particular Black Americans, to fail to do the same thing. The implication is that it’s their fault for their failure to improve themselves. > > This conveniently ignores a lot of other factors, including the fact that after a while, Irish-Americans were admitted into whiteness, as were Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans, and other groups that were initially excluded. Black Americans have never been extended that privilege. Note that in an interaction, and without any additional information, people don’t know you’re Irish. However, they do know if you’re Black. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/37 "2020-07-22T16:44:12Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > After you destroyed them for their hypocrisy, did the rest of the store break out in applause?. **Moderator Warning** **Chingon** , I’ve instructed you previously to refrain from snarky remarks directed at other posters, and to confine yourself to factual responses in this forum. This is an official warning for failure to follow moderator instructions. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/38 "2020-07-22T19:04:45Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Note that in an interaction, and without any additional information, people don’t know you’re Irish. > > However, they do know if you’re Black. IMO one of the most interesting features of the SDMB is that one’s sex, sexual orientation, and race are largely obscure until / unless one chooses to lay it out. And by being obscure these factors begin by being irrelevant and can remain irrelevant far longer than IRL. On a more lighthearted note there’s this famous editorial cartoon [hosted at wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internet_dog.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/39 "2020-07-22T19:10:35Z")
My wife does hate the incorrect pronunciation of “Celtics”, but she has no issue at all with Irish sports mascots. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769/40 "2020-07-22T19:19:38Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Note that in an interaction, and without any additional information, people don’t know you’re Irish. > > However, they do know if you’re Black. On that note, my niece and nephew are Black Irish-Americans. My sister’s husband was from Guyana, and Black (with some South Asian mixed in). Although my niece’s name is Erin, I’m sure no one who meets her assumes she’s Irish-American. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-in-the-us-how-bad-did-the-irish-have-it/915769.md?page=3)