# Discrimination on the basis of attractiveness/physical appearance **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680 "2015-04-14T20:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/21 "2015-04-15T08:16:59Z")
> [@B.Serum](#): > > The notion of legislating for or against attractiveness is outright ludicrous. > > That said, attractive privilege is one of the ways the practice of decreasing wages for waitstaff to allow for tipping is discriminatory. [Freakonomics did a great episode on it](http://freakonomics.com/2013/06/03/should-tipping-be-banned-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/). So did Mythbusters: [Do Larger Breasts Equal Bigger Tips?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YJ91FKZHI0). Big boobs might get you larger tips at the local cafe, I doubt it’ll do you any favours when presenting your latest science results at the physics conference, or make your life easier at the next Python hackaton. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/22 "2015-04-15T08:40:07Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Leaving aside those sorts of jobs, nobody who was actually serious about business would hire an attractive person over an unattractive person if the unattractive person was clearly better. They’d be saddling themselves with an inferior employee, and giving their competition and upper hand. Exactly. Absolutely no-one in middle management would sacrifice their company’s bottom line in favor of hiring an attractive subordinate they might potentially be able to have sex with. Those guys are strictly business. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/23 "2015-04-15T09:16:03Z")
Discrimination on a basis of attractiveness is often practiced non-uniformly with respect to gender. I.e., a boss will hire only attractive women, but not practice any such discrimination against the men he hires (likely because he’s only attracted to women). This could constitute an instance of sex discrimination. I agree though that subjectivity makes even this difficult to prove, unless the boss talked openly about it. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/24 "2015-04-15T09:26:08Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Discrimination on a basis of attractiveness is often practiced non-uniformly with respect to gender. I.e., a boss will hire only attractive women, but not practice any such discrimination against the men he hires (likely because he’s only attracted to women). This could constitute an instance of sex discrimination. > > I agree though that subjectivity makes even this difficult to prove, unless the boss talked openly about it. In most companies of a respectable size the boss is not doing the hiring. HR is. And as shown above, HR - which is usually populated by women - appears to be discriminating against attractive women. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/25 "2015-04-15T11:38:59Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > In most companies of a respectable size the boss is not doing the hiring. HR is. And as shown above, HR - which is usually populated by women - appears to be discriminating against attractive women. Where I work, HR does the initial screening of applicants based on their resume/application. The hiring manager takes it from there. Another problem with policing lookism: there’s naturally attractive and then there’s “I put some effort into my look because I care what people think, to a reasonable degree.” It is unfair to discriminate based on the first, but I think it’s smart to discriminate based on the second. A person who “cares what people think, to a reasonable degree” is more likely to have the social skills needed to function on a team. You’re less likely to have to pull them aside and tell them they need to work on their hygiene, or that sneakers and halter tops are NOT professional. How does one know that the golden halo a particular attractive employee wears isn’t hard-earned? Why should a person be penalized for this? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/26 "2015-04-15T16:00:49Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Exactly. Absolutely no-one in middle management would sacrifice their company’s bottom line in favor of hiring an attractive subordinate they might potentially be able to have sex with. Those guys are strictly business. I’ve seen more than a couple of instances of exactly this happening. A senior executive making his 58 year old “Executive Assistant” redundant, then creating a position of “Departmental Admin” filled by a mid-twenties looker whose last job was a cosmetician. Another VP (female) hired a Finance Manager whose last job was owning a sports themed barbershop that went bust. Guy used Excel as a word processor. Not to mention a couple of women who racked up awards that entitled them to attend destination award events (Las Vegas, Orlando) because the regional VP fancied his chances of bedding them at the off-site. Is Israel that different? Or is my experience atypical. These are not all at the same company. Different industries, different cultures, but attractive people being treated better seems pretty consistent in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/27 "2015-04-15T16:29:08Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > In most companies of a respectable size the boss is not doing the hiring. HR is. And as shown above, HR - which is usually populated by women - appears to be discriminating against attractive women. I’ve worked for four companies of more than respectable size and this has never been true. You need the hiring to get signed off on (money and qualifications) but the hiring manager has most of the power. I’d suspect most of the bias will be unconscious though. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/28 "2015-04-15T16:37:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’ve worked for four companies of more than respectable size and this has never been true. You need the hiring to get signed off on (money and qualifications) but the hiring manager has most of the power. Completely true in my experience as well. HR is there to aid the hiring manager and to make sure we don’t get sued. Otherwise they have no control over who gets hired. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/29 "2015-04-15T16:41:31Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I’ve seen more than a couple of instances of exactly this happening. > > A senior executive making his 58 year old “Executive Assistant” redundant, then creating a position of “Departmental Admin” filled by a mid-twenties looker whose last job was a cosmetician. > > Another VP (female) hired a Finance Manager whose last job was owning a sports themed barbershop that went bust. Guy used Excel as a word processor. > > Not to mention a couple of women who racked up awards that entitled them to attend destination award events (Las Vegas, Orlando) because the regional VP fancied his chances of bedding them at the off-site. > > Is Israel that different? Or is my experience atypical. These are not all at the same company. Different industries, different cultures, but attractive people being treated better seems pretty consistent in my experience. **Alessan** was being sarcastic. I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/30 "2015-04-15T17:06:33Z")
That dental assistant in Iowa was fired 10 years ago for being too pretty and threatening her bosses marriage with her good looks. It went to the State Supreme Court and she lost. Discrimination based on looks is legal, ‘ugly/pretty’ people aren’t a protected class, at least in Iowa. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/31 "2015-04-15T17:17:40Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > **Alessan** was being sarcastic. I believe. That was, indeed, a whoosh. I’ve been out of the corporate world for a while, thank Og, but I remember how it was. The company’s good was rarely those guys’ top priority. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/32 "2015-04-15T17:36:38Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Big boobs might get you larger tips at the local cafe, I doubt it’ll do you any favours when presenting your latest science results at the physics conference, or make your life easier at the next Python hackaton. Why do you think so many women go into sales, marketing and PR, rather than STEM jobs? “Gee, I can try and learn C#, Java, Hadoop, SQL, Ruby on Rails, .NET and whatever else is / was / will be the hot tech and try to compete with a bunch of nerds who spent most of their teens and 20s glued to a computer while my girlfriends and I were at the mall shopping. Or I can just put on this undersized T-shirt and parade around the trade shows and get drunk with clients.” > [@Waymore](#): > > In some jobs, attractiveness would be a qualification. Leaving aside those sorts of jobs, nobody who was actually serious about business would hire an attractive person over an unattractive person if the unattractive person was clearly better. They’d be saddling themselves with an inferior employee, and giving their competition and upper hand. Some of it is subconscious. People often assume a correlation between attractiveness and competency. To a certain point. Beyond that point, I think a certain “bimbo” factor takes over and attractiveness can be a detriment. i.e. Christmas Jones, PhD. But IMHO, 90% of business isn’t “serious” in that it requires serious intellect or skills. Most of it is just selling and managing people. > [@Voyager](#): > > I’ve worked for four companies of more than respectable size and this has never been true I have to agree with this. Big companies have a formal process for obtaining budget for new hires, submitting reqs and going through the recruiting process. And HR/Recruiting is there to facilitate and enforce that. But general the department or practice head and his subordinate managers due the actual interviewing and ultimately decide on hiring. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/33 "2015-04-15T18:21:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Who is the protected class here? Everyone? Everyone is always in every protected class. (That has to be the most misunderstood phrasing in the US outside of “immaculate conception.”) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/34 "2015-04-15T19:11:10Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Everyone is always in every protected class. (That has to be the most misunderstood phrasing in the US outside of “immaculate conception.”) If one were to propose a class action suit around discrimination against either attractive or unattractive people, how would you propose assigning membership in the class. Self-identification? Hot or Not? That was the point. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/35 "2015-04-15T19:12:37Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > If one were to propose a class action suit around discrimination against either attractive or unattractive people, how would you propose assigning membership in the class. Self-identification? Hot or Not? That was the point. Got it. I’ve had too many conversations with people who think “Black people are in a protected class but white people are not” and similar conversations. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/36 "2015-04-15T20:29:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Speaking as a member of the appearance-challenged community … > > You’d have to start by defining attractive. In other categories you are clearly one or another, but how many milli-Helens makes you attractive. (MilliHelen - face can launch one ship of course.) What about the problem that for some jobs attractiveness is a plus, but for others it is a minus? Who is the protected class here? Everyone? It’d be much easier to define ugly … facial warts, gapped teeth, percentage of body fat, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680/37 "2015-04-15T20:36:42Z")
It’s tough to complain about favoritism when you are good looking and get the best schedule/position/team because of superior appearance. Good looking people even get to skate by with their cushy jobs while others scramble to support their inexperience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discrimination-on-the-basis-of-attractiveness-physical-appearance/717680.md?page=1)