# Discuss my Grand Unifying Theory on Coolness & Dorkism **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 30, 2005, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167 "2005-09-30T05:40:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/21 "2005-09-30T19:55:26Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I think we can defince what makes a person cool by looking at social things we know are uncool: > > [INDENT]_Appeasement._ > The desire to be liked so much that one says what one thinks the other person wants to hear, rather than what is true. One says nice words to get out of a jam, or to get into a desired place, even though that piles up trouble for later. > > I can think of so many cases where this has happened, in my own life and elsewhere. This also seems to the the kernel of the womens’ complaint in the Nice Guy threads here. I disagree. What turns women off is liking them too much too early. To a woman, this basically says, “I mostly want to get in your pants, but I can’t even admit it to _myself,_ let alone you.” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/22 "2005-09-30T20:30:48Z")
> [@YaWanna](#): > > I’m submitting a countertheory: > > Coolness is determined by how many/how much people (esp., but not limited to, those of the same sex) want to **be** you. > > Any flaws in my theory, or examples that would disprove it? Any corollaries? Discuss amongst yahselves. ::waves manicured hands, takes a sip of cwahfee:: RIDICULOUS!!! OUTRAGEOUS!!! PREPOSTEROUS!!! Ok…actually that’s not bad. Except here’s the flaw. It does not account for the fact that the uncool can be so uncool that they don’t know that they should want to be cool. The result is that it would tend to only demonstrate coolness at the local level. The D&D nerds may not WANT to be the high school football star. They may want to be like some super-nerd they know who throws a mean 37 sided die or something. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/23 "2005-09-30T21:11:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Ok…actually that’s not bad. Except here’s the flaw. It does not account for the fact that the uncool can be so uncool that they don’t know that they should want to be cool. This, of course, assumes the invalid assertion that everyone should want to be cool. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/24 "2005-09-30T21:34:22Z")
> [@Millit the Frail](#): > > [hijack]The best part about this thread is the ad for “animal behavior control” at the bottom.[/hijack] > > OK, but really–I agree with the Miles Davis/Donald Trump comparison. I know a whole lot of people who are cool but do not get much ass. Perhaps more telling, I’ve known a whole lot of of absolutely non-cool people who get tons. > > When I think back to high school, the people having the most sex were at the very top and the very bottom of the “cool” scale. Now the people I place at the bottom aren’t the nerdy kids (like me), but the really skanky, redneck-y kids. They seemed to get each other knocked up all the time. And it did not make them cool or vice versa. Agreed. The really icky, icky people who no one thought was cool still had no trouble having sex with each other. If you think coolness is strictly measured by sexual desirability, you have to include as well who’s doing the desiring, which makes it sort of a circular problem. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/25 "2005-09-30T22:10:11Z")
You sure spend a lot of time thinking about cool people and nerds for someone in his thirties, **msmith537**. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/26 "2005-10-01T03:58:06Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > I disagree. What turns women off is liking them too much too early. To a woman, this basically says, “I mostly want to get in your pants, but I can’t even admit it to _myself,_ let alone you.” “Liking them too much too early”… do you mean, professing undying love on the first date, when what is really wanted is a good shag? Sounds like Not Speaking One’s Truth to me… ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/27 "2005-10-01T13:18:50Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > You sure spend a lot of time thinking about cool people and nerds for someone in his thirties, **msmith537**. He’s an ex-frat boy. It’s in his DNA. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/28 "2005-10-01T14:50:44Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > > [@davenportavenger](#): > > > > You sure spend a lot of time thinking about cool people and nerds for someone in his thirties, msmith537. > > He’s an ex-frat boy. It’s in his DNA. 🙂 I’ve thought the exact same thing about the OP. But I actually agree with his hypothesis to the extent that we are talking about the type of cool that is typically presented as a model, in the media. This is presumably the type of cool he’s referring to. But there are other kinds of cool. Some people just decide their sick of the dating game, of having their hearts broken, or whatever so they just decide to chill out for a while. And they’re cool with that. They’re cool because they’ve decided to be content with who, where, and what they are. IME sometimes not appearing to want something so desparately will set you on the road to getting it. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/29 "2005-10-01T14:54:41Z")
Rather than resurrect the other nerd thread where we were talking about definitions, I just wanted to add that I’ve noticed that many people derided as nerds actually seem to be very happy people and passionately interested in whatever is the focus of their nerdicity. In some ways I actually _wish_ I were more of a nerd than I already am, which is saying a good deal. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/30 "2005-10-01T14:54:43Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > You sure spend a lot of time thinking about cool people and nerds for someone in his thirties, **msmith537**. I think I spend exactly the right amount of time. Besides, the concept of “cool” and “nerd” never really goes away. As an adult we say a person “firts in” or “they’re a little odd”. I think the major difference is that when you get older and outside of the closed institutionalized world of school, you no longer have small groups who hold a monopoly on what is “acceptible behavior”. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/31 "2005-10-01T15:32:40Z")
Cool is when you don’t care about coolness anymore. People who try to be cool or look cool or act cool are faking it. They are posers. The really cool people are those who figure out that there is no coolness criteria. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/32 "2005-10-01T16:00:49Z")
You can guage your “coolness” by how quickly you skimmed to the bottom of this thread. If you read no posts at all you will be feeling good. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/33 "2005-10-02T13:41:19Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I think I spend exactly the right amount of time. > > Besides, the concept of “cool” and “nerd” never really goes away. As an adult we say a person “firts in” or “they’re a little odd”. I think the major difference is that when you get older and outside of the closed institutionalized world of school, you no longer have small groups who hold a monopoly on what is “acceptible behavior”. “Fits in” and “odd” are not the same thing as cool and uncool. We do not mean those things to mean, “he wears the right clothes,” or “they listen to unpopular music.” They mean things like, “he is considerate of others,” or “She throws temper tantrums at meetings.” Anyway, by middle age everybody has figured out a way to get laid. Even the uncool people. Even me. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/34 "2005-10-02T14:24:35Z")
I think by now it’s clear that “cool” is not nearly as simple as the OP implied. First, it’s obviously culture dependent. Now, not so fast. I’ve embedded a hidden idea in that sentence. When I say “culture,” I don’t mean American culture vs. European culture vs. Asian culture, etc., although those differences are there. No, what I’m referring to is the subtlest of differences between the culture of adolescents and college students, or between the fields of IT and plumbing, things like that. We live in a sea of subcultures, and subsubcultures, and so on, and each one has its own rules about what it means to be “cool.” Where do all these rules come from? Moral order. Moral order, moral order, moral order. The universal human dichotomy of good/bad, right/wrong. It covers everything from body language to where you live to what clothes you wear to how you speak to what career you have to … I could go on. Suffice it to say that “cool” is a subset of specific combinations of all these criteria, which vary as widely within a society as between them. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/35 "2005-10-03T04:51:14Z")
Cool people aren’t obsessed with being cool. **Sunspace** , I _have_ to find that essay. Is the anthology itself worthwhile? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/36 "2005-10-03T16:31:01Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Cool people aren’t obsessed with being cool. Probably true. But then again neither are uncool people. Of course the word “cool” seems pretty stupid anyhow. Fonzie from Happy Days was cool and we all saw how Henry Winkler turned out. Really I’m just using the terms cool/nerd as shorthand for whatever it is that makes some people seem to almost universally attract or repel others. This isn’t meant to be too serious of an OP (as I created it at 2:00 am after drinking with some friends) so I would not expect people to take it very seriously. However I will ask the “cool people aren’t obsessed with being cool” this - do you really not care? I think SteveG1 is right in that you really have to be yourself otherwise you are a “poser”. On the other hand, no one is born with a particular look or style. What influences you to select your haircut, clothes, activities or relationships? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/37 "2005-10-03T18:53:49Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Fonzie from Happy Days was cool and we all saw how Henry Winkler turned out. ? This reminds me of a time, mid 1980s, when I was driving home from work in the San Fernando Valley. I saw a fiftyish guy driving a 1950s era Chevy, beautifully restored. The thing is, he was probably just the right age to have been an older teenager or young 20-something in the 1950s, and he was still sporting the look–Fonz haircut–only grey, leather jacket, etc. It made me wonder if he’d been a 1950s era car nut/hotrodder who had never bothered to change. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167/38 "2005-10-03T19:16:48Z")
Seinfeld once speculated that a man continues wearing, for the rest of his life, the clothes that he wore during his peak years. > [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > This reminds me of a time, mid 1980s, when I was driving home from work in the San Fernando Valley. I saw a fiftyish guy driving a 1950s era Chevy, beautifully restored. The thing is, he was probably just the right age to have been an older teenager or young 20-something in the 1950s, and he was still sporting the look–Fonz haircut–only grey, leather jacket, etc. It made me wonder if he’d been a 1950s era car nut/hotrodder who had never bothered to change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discuss-my-grand-unifying-theory-on-coolness-dorkism/324167.md?page=1)