# Discussion: An asexual woman **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 25, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165 "2008-08-25T02:54:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/1 "2008-08-25T02:54:29Z")
In [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=480638) thread, **astro** asked the question _“Do true asexuals exist who have NO sexual desires whatsoever?”_ I answered yes, I’m living with one. So as not to hijack that thread with further anecdota, I’ve started this one, instead. To quote my original post: > [@me](#): > > Hell yes, they exist; I’m living with one. DesertRoomie is tagged Roomie (Not Lover, not Girlfriend, not Wife) for a reason: She is a 48 year-old virgin\* who so far as I know, has never gone beyond a simple kiss. We have been living together for sixteen years, shortly after my wife died, and not once have I heard or seen her express any sexual desire for anyone or anything. > > \*She was raped at age 25, but that hardly counts, does it, now. > > When we first started living together she had some guy tagging along that she was engaged to (no date set) yet I never saw her looking at him the way a fiancée should look at her intended. I believe she was going through the motions to please her parents. He moved from Nevada to San Diego to pursue a job, then six months later wrote a Dear Jane letter. She seemed more relieved than devastated and has not done anything remotely like that again in fifteen years. During one of the few times I was able to get her to talk about her feelings, she mentioned he kept talking about he was really looking forward to their wedding night, which gave her the heebie jeebies. > > Two years after my wife died, right on schedule according to the mourning texts I have read, I looked at her one day and thought, “I could love this woman.” Immediately after that was the thought, “She’ll never return it,” so I said and did nothing at the time. Three months later, after struggling with the feelings I had for her, I wrote a letter. In it I thanked her for being there when I was going through the darkest period in my life and she may well have kept me from suicide. Then I explained how somewhat to my surprise, I found myself in love again, with her. Commenting on her asexuality, I said how much it seemed a part of her, realized how much ingrained it was, and there was nothing I could do, or should do, to change it, but I was willing to do whatever it took, no matter how long it took, to help her change. I concluded with “The path lies before you if you wish to take it. I would be honored to show you the way.” > > I laid the letter, folded, on her desk as I left for work one morning and waited for her to comment – waited for a month. Finally I asked if she had read the letter; she said yes. Then I asked if she had any thoughts about the letter; she said no. In one of the more ironical ponderings I’ve had about this relationship, such as it is, is that it’s supposed to be the woman who wants to talk about feelings and the man who keeps his inside where it doesn’t show. With us, it’s the opposite. Off and on as the months and years passed by I would probe trying to get some idea of what was going on in her head or her heart. Each one was unsuccessful. > > At one point she commented that tax-wise, it would be advantageous for us to be married. I just looked at her and said, “I’m far too romantic to marry someone for a tax break. If I marry someone it would because I love her, and I would expect that love to be expressed in its full, physical manifestation.” That was the end of that. > > Then, after nine years – Christmas, 2003 to be exact – we were at my brother’s after Christmas dinner. I was on the couch watching some movie and she sat next to me. Filled with warm Christmas spirits (and a couple glasses of wine) for the first time in years I deliberately touched her, by putting an arm around her waist. After about five seconds, she drew away and chastened, I sat with my hands on my lap for the rest of the evening. When we were driving home that night, I asked if my arm around her had made her uncomfortable. “Yes,” was her simple answer. > > Something broke inside me. I concluded that, if after eleven years of living with me, nine years after knowing I had feelings for her, my touch made her uncomfortable, there was nothing that was going to change that. I set about crushing those feelings. It was quite a struggle for a while. I’ve been in love only a couple times in the past, and my love for them all is still there, even though they are long gone. With the object of my love around every day, it kept welling up again periodically. I would meditate, going back to that moment of “Yes” and mentally shred that spot of light, tamp it back into the ground. Quite a few sessions of meditation, and quite a few quarts of Jack Daniels later, I have been successful; I see DR simply as the person I am living with. We get along well enough – I commented once that judging by the sounds we hear, especially on Saturday nights, we get along better than about 80% of our neighbors – but there is not one shred of intimacy, physical or mental, in our relationship. > > I have some theories about what might be going on in her head, but since I have no idea how accurate they might be, I’ll not give them here. Besides, I’ve hijacked this thread enough and the theories have the smell of sour grapes about them. Suffice it to say, that yes, there are people about who have no interest in sex or intimacy; I live with one. > [@ivylass](#): > > DesertDog, that’s a very sad story. Not to further hijack, but are you content with the way things are now, or do you wish for a full relationship with someone else? > > I’d hate to see you treading water if that’s not what you truly desire. And I’m sorry for your roommate…like I would be for someone blind since birth. They may have a full life, but there’s a part of the human existence they will never experience. Content might be stretching it a bit; inured would be closer. My Buddhist tendency is to accept things the way they are or to put it another way, you play the hand you’re dealt. Treading water beats drowning. In order for me to have a relationship with another, she and I would have to part. Can you imagine me bringing someone home for some horizontal refreshment and having the new intended ask, “Who’s that?” “Oh, that’s just the woman I’ve been living with for sixteen years. Don’t pay her any mind; we’re Just Friends. And don’t pay any attention to the fact she can hear everything we do; she doesn’t care.” No sane woman would believe that. The house we live in is in the “Dog” family trust. Her staying without me is not really an option; she would find paying market-rates for rent unaffordable. For reasons I have not gone into, I would not ask her to leave. To quote the letter I wrote five years ago, where I said I was giving up, _“I can’t imagine someone wanting to share this place with you; I can’t imagine you wanting to share this place with someone else. Yet, I cannot ask you to leave; you have done nothing to warrant that.”_ That is still true today. Your analogy of someone blind with birth resonates with my own. On the one hand, you can’t say she isn’t leading a full life. On the other, there is a full part of her humanity she’ll never experience. > [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Gee DesertDog, that was a very interesting and illuminating story. I live a chaste life. Not asexual, but chaste. I do that for a variety of psychological and moral reasons, but I choose to do it. Further, I mostly enjoy my life. Sex would not make me happier. Well, as pointed out elsewhere, there is a difference between chastity and asexuality. I have been chaste since my wife’s death and it has not been entirely involuntary. Hell, we lived in Carson City close to the county border. A two-mile drive and I could have had all the commercial nooky I could afford, legal and above-board. I never availed. The Buddhist part of me believes that we spend this life to learn a lesson. If it is learned, we can move on, if not learned, it is repeated. I suspect _my_ lesson is that carnality is not so important, after all. > [@me](#): > > \*She was raped at age 25, but that hardly counts, does it, now. > [@WhyNot](#): > > On the contrary, it may count for everything. It seems to me that a fairly common technique that rape victims use to cope is to shut down their intimacy for a while. Maybe she just got stuck there, poor thing. My sentence was poorly put. When I said it hardly matters, I meant the state of her virginity. Rape is no more an act of love – or even sex – than robbery is an act of commerce. Of _course_ it had a effect on her – how could it not? But it was seven years in her past when I first met her, nine when I revealed my feelings toward her, twenty-three today. She has been as reluctant to talk about it as anything else even remotely connected with sex or intimacy, but I have been able to glean that he was an acquaintance and it was not a case of date-rape. She has directly told me she never dated in high school or college and when she was in her “fiancée” period it seemed to me she was merely going through the motions. Realizing that being raped would surely put the knock on any feelings of trust she may have had, when I was wooing her I tried to reassure her that nothing would happen without her direct, stated willingness that it happen. It makes the whole relationship not very spontaneous, I said, but better that than risk dredging up any feelings of fear that might be lurking, until she knew within her heart that she could trust me. “No means no, even to my wife.” Again, she never answered. I don’t think the spark of her sexuality was extinguished by the rape; I think it never flickered to life to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/2 "2008-08-25T03:19:51Z")
I feel for you, man. I have a much higher sex drive than **babygirl.** I know that is not even close, but we do manage to survive. Read [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=351192) about a lifetime of loveless sex or sexless love. I don’t know if it will help, but at least you may see that you are not alone. Dammit, where is \*\*MandaJo \*\*when you need her? SSG Schwartz ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/3 "2008-08-25T04:31:53Z")
[QUOTE=SSG Schwartz] Dammit, where is \*\*MandaJo \*\*when you need her? [/QUOTE] Out gettin’ some. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/4 "2008-08-25T08:30:35Z")
I definitely can believe that some people out there just don’t have a sex drive. But the way you describe this woman, it sounds to me like she is uncomfortable talking much about intense emotions at all and has maintained her emotional distance from you even after all these years. To me, that would make me think she may very well have the same sexual urges as other people but that there is something psychological going on here that is keeping her from expressing such intense feelings. Are you the only close friend she has? Do you know anything about what her family was like growing up? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/5 "2008-08-25T10:39:20Z")
Maybe she’s just not that into you. I say that half-joking, but is it possible she just hasn’t met the right person to bring out the sexual being in her? Or that she’s scarred from the rape but still has feelings about sex that seem wrong in context? Regarding your putting your arm around her and her recoiling. Do you ever have physical contact with her? I think a person can be asexual and still share friendly (even loving) embraces. Do you ever hug? I know there are asexual people out there. I don’t think I’d choose to live with one I was in love with, though. It’s probably very uncomfortable for her to be the object of your desire, whether she’s asexual or just not that into you. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/6 "2008-08-25T15:26:38Z")
I can’t imagine your relationship, just like I can’t imagine being blind since birth. And I can’t speak to your religious beliefs. But I would submit that maybe since you’re questioning the ongoing relationship, maybe you’ve learned your lesson and are ready to “move on?” You say you won’t ask her to leave for reasons you have not revealed. That’s fine. But is _she_ happy with the way things are? And since she is asexual, why would she care if you developed a sexual relationship with someone else? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Tyger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Silver\_Tyger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Tyger)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/7 "2008-08-25T16:08:54Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Maybe she’s just not that into you. I say that half-joking, but is it possible she just hasn’t met the right person to bring out the sexual being in her? [/QUOTE] I’m just going to point out that sort of thinking is offensive to a lot of asexuals. It implies that their natural feelings are wrong - like saying a lesbian hasn’t met the right man. I’m not saying you meant it that way, I’m pointing it out. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/8 "2008-08-25T16:16:20Z")
Have you \*asked \*her if she’d be okay with you sleeping with someone else? I don’t mean hinted or suggested or joked, I mean outright asked her? If not, you’re answering for her, and that’s infantalizing and possibly counter-productive. For all you know, her answer might be a relieved, “Oh, god, yes! Please do, I’ve been feeling so guilty for the last 16 years that you have this need I can’t fulfill! I’d \*love \*to see you happy and laid. Can I cook you two breakfast in the morning?” I mean, maybe not. But maybe. It doesn’t sound like you’ve given her any choice in the matter at all. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/9 "2008-08-25T16:32:34Z")
[QUOTE=DesertDog] In order for me to have a relationship with another, she and I would have to part. Can you imagine me bringing someone home for some horizontal refreshment and having the new intended ask, “Who’s that?” “Oh, that’s just the woman I’ve been living with for sixteen years. Don’t pay her any mind; we’re Just Friends. And don’t pay any attention to the fact she can hear everything we do; she doesn’t care.” No sane woman would believe that. The house we live in is in the “Dog” family trust. Her staying without me is not really an option; she would find paying market-rates for rent unaffordable. For reasons I have not gone into, I would not ask her to leave. [/QUOTE] This is a completely unnecessary constraint on your part. First off, although your relationship with this woman may be some hindrance in finding romantic partners, it’s by no means a “deal-breaker” for a large portion of the population. It shrinks the pool, but so does your age, sex, race, income, religion, and taste in movies. It simply doesn’t preclude you from developing a relationship in any meaningful way if you don’t let it. Exactly what you owe her is still unclear to me, but if you have a woman living in your house rent-free for over a decade that doesn’t even like you, well, she can get over you developing an amorous relationship with someone else. It seems like you’ve accepted that you’ll never be with her, but you’ve got to really get past it and behave as if you have if you’re ever going to be in a relationship again. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/10 "2008-08-25T16:52:41Z")
[QUOTE=Silver Tyger Girl] I’m just going to point out that sort of thinking is offensive to a lot of asexuals. It implies that their natural feelings are wrong - like saying a lesbian hasn’t met the right man. I’m not saying you meant it that way, I’m pointing it out. [/QUOTE] He’s assuming she’s asexual. She hasn’t classified herself as so from the information posted here. She may very well be uptight, uncomfortable, and unable to discuss it with him, and it may be because she doesn’t look at _him_ that way. We don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/11 "2008-08-25T16:58:32Z")
[QUOTE=threemae] This is a completely unnecessary constraint on your part. [/QUOTE] Agreed. You’ve led a life of celibacy because of what someone you’ve never met might think about your roommate? ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/12 "2008-08-25T18:57:57Z")
I have to say that, as a single woman interested in finding a romantic partner, having a roommate of the opposite sex is NOT a dealbreaker. Especially if she’s asexual. Don’t close off possibilities you haven’t given a chance to. You sound like a wonderful man, and there are a lot of women out there who would be delighted to find you. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/13 "2008-08-25T19:51:00Z")
From the Buddhist standpoint, I caution you against thinking you understand the reasons for this turn of the cycle – it could just as easily be “can I overcome my reluctance to change in order to make my life more fulfilled by finding a love” as “carnality is not so important, after all”. Treading water is not swimming, after all, and sitting still and not improving is the antithesis of Buddhism, at least the Zen Buddhism I try to practice. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/14 "2008-08-25T21:39:44Z")
What is the Buddhist standpoint on sex? I was curious about this so I opened a [new thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=480900) on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/15 "2008-08-25T22:38:22Z")
OP, you seem to be so in control of yourself in a situation that would drive others batshit insane. On the subject of asexuality, she could be masturbating. That’s not a discredit to the OP—sex with any other person may be out of the question for her, but masturbation might be acceptable in her mind. I think it’s time you part. You’ve certainly given the relationship every chance to develop. And I’m afraid that by not pressing the issue, you’ve enabled her. If she was raped that long ago and hasn’t come to terms with it, that’s really tragic. But your patience and understanding allowed her to avoid confronting what needs to be addressed—for herself first and foremost, and for you if you are to be part of her life sexually. The situation reminds me a bit of something I heard about eating disorders like anorexia. If you were addicted to heroin, the solution would be to quit and stay quit…but you need food to live so you have to eat, and that’s much harder. Carnality may be like food in this analogy: true, many people over value it, abuse it, whatever: but denying yourself forever isn’t the solution, either. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/16 "2008-08-25T23:58:27Z")
Just a question. Can an asexual person simply be a psychopath who a) lacks the stereotypical sadistic streak and b) has an aversion to physical contact? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/17 "2008-08-26T00:07:47Z")
It does sound like she’s asexual because she’s trying very hard to avoid dealing with some sort of issue in her life. I mean, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being asexual, but she seems to have a lot of difficulty even talking about, even to someone she’s lived with for sixteen years, even after that person has confessed to having feelings for her. When you left her that letter, for example, she should have at least talked to you about it, even if that talk was, “Sorry, no, never, not a chance in hell, I just don’t want that out of life.” Instead, she seemed to be pretending it never happened, which is, at the very least, grossly unfair to you. Which means she’s either a big fat jerk, or there’s some sort of emotional problem going on there. Which, again, is not to say that all asexual people have an emotional problem. Just that the description of this particular person sounds like there’s something bigger going on than just being asexual. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/18 "2008-08-26T00:13:18Z")
Is she passionate about anything? Hobbies, politics, art? Does she ever get pissed off at you about non-sex related things? ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/19 "2008-08-26T00:25:20Z")
[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya] Just a question. Can an asexual person simply be a psychopath who a) lacks the stereotypical sadistic streak and b) has an aversion to physical contact? [/QUOTE] In psychiatry, there is a condition called [Schizoid personality disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid#Diagnostic_criteria_and_profile) that is characterized by (among other things) having no personal ties and not wanting/missing connections to other people. That condition is considered distinctly different than what is known as a “psychopath”, though. A psychopath implies someone who violates other people’s rights without remorse - in contrast to the schizoid simply being indifferent to other people, not trying to hurt anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_The\_Goon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Alice\_The\_Goon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alice_The_Goon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165/20 "2008-08-26T00:48:06Z")
This is heartbreaking. You have basically given up being loved by a woman for the rest of your life and having children if you wanted them, for this one woman who is so emotionally damaged that she can’t love you back. I agree with **Miller** that she doesn’t sound truly asexual, but more emotionally disturbed. On some level, I have to believe that, for your own reasons, you _chose_ to do this. You chose to be in a long term unrequited relationship with an unavailable person, because… why did you _do_ that, really? I’m not buying the “it’s the Buddhist way” explanation. If there is a deeper reason- say, a fear of abandonment caused you to become stuck in a relationship that poses no threat because really, there is no relationship- and you figure it out in your lifetime, are you going to be really pissed at yourself for having wasted all this time with her, not being loved back? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-an-asexual-woman/461165.md?page=2)