# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 104
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2061 "2024-10-25T14:42:46Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Issam Abdallah Wasn’t he the one killed by an Israeli tank when his group came under fire after they were mistaken for Hezbollah operatives? I don’t remember all the details but IIRC someone was pointing a large camera at the tank and, from a distance, they mistook it for some kind of launcher. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Hamza Al Dahdouh Wasn’t he in a car with someone who was operating a drone? Operating a drone in a war zone (where civilian drones are routinely used to drop explosives or in kamikaze attacks) without clearing it with the fighting forces seems incredibly stupid. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Mustafa Thuraya Same incident as above? > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Ismail Al Ghoul He was a militant with Hamas and, unlike the rest on this list, deserved what he got. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Rami Al Refee I don’t know if any evidence that he was a Hamas militant himself, but he was killed in the same strike as Al Ghoul. Running around with terrorists in a war zone also seems very ill advised. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2062 "2024-10-25T14:52:54Z")
What is so enigmatic about what I am proposing? You are assuming that by according the Palestinians’ right of return being Jewish would be punishable by death. This is a leap of logic based on paranoia and prejudice. Were this to be true, we should do everything in our power to prevent this from happening. By the way, in which Arab Muslim states is being Jewish punishable by death? ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2063 "2024-10-25T14:55:35Z")
Heh, Great White Savior. You are doing a miserable job of it. A better approach would be to get rid of the necessarily oppressive state of Israel and replace it with a state that serves all of the people in Palestine. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2064 "2024-10-25T15:14:42Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > A better approach would be to get rid of the necessarily oppressive state of Israel and replace it with a state that serves all of the people in Palestine. A better approach would be if you fucked off for another 6 months. Eta: or forever, that works too. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2065 "2024-10-25T15:27:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Pakistan is a multi-ethnic state. It’s one _religion_, though. Nitpick: Not quite even that, demographically. It is officially the “Islamic Republic of Pakistan”, but about 3% of the population is non-Muslim (mostly Hindu or Christian). The Pakistan constitution nominally provides for freedom of religion (“Subject to law, public order, and morality, every citizen shall have the right to profess, practice, and propagate his religion”), although in practice, the religious freedom of minorities is not always respected. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2066 "2024-10-25T15:43:13Z")
No it wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2067 "2024-10-25T15:51:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Not quite even that, demographically Close enough for a generic statement like that, though. Hell, even Saudi Arabia isn’t _all_ Muslim, and they have zero religious freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2068 "2024-10-25T17:24:22Z")
Agreed, with the further nitpick that the practice of non-Muslim religions is much more tolerated in Pakistan than in Saudi Arabia, though that’s admittedly a very low bar to clear. I mean, for example, there are several sites in Pakistan that host major pilgrimage events to Hindu temples that get hundreds of thousands of Hindu Pakistani visitors annually. Nothing of the sort is even remotely thinkable in Saudi Arabia. So I don’t know that I’d consider it accurate to call Pakistan a “one religion” state either demographically or politically, except in the sense of “rounding up 0.95xxxx to 1”. Like I said, though, nitpick. Less of a nitpick, and not directed at what you wrote: Although there has certainly been a lot of intra-Palestinian persecution of Christians by Muslim-fundamentalist extremists, there has also been a lot of Palestinian Christian-Muslim solidarity in the face of Israeli oppression. A future “Islamic State of Palestine”, if there were to be one, would probably be structured much more like, say, Pakistan or Jordan than like Saudi Arabia. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2069 "2024-10-25T19:30:59Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > A better approach would be to get rid of the necessarily oppressive state of Israel and replace it with a state that serves all of the people in Palestine. Golly gee whiz, that’s it! Why haven’t we just tried telling the Israelis and Palestinians to just get along!? It’s just that simple! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2070 "2024-10-25T19:40:53Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > You are assuming that by according the Palestinians’ right of return being Jewish would be punishable by death. This is a leap of logic based on paranoia and prejudice. It’s a prejudice based on the actual history of the Jews in nearby nations, including ecumenical Lebanon. The Israelis don’t trust the Palestinians, and the Palestinians don’t trust the Israelis, and both are right to want to control their own destinies, quite frankly. It will take at least two generations of peace before a shared political entity (like the EU, maybe) has any real chance of working. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2071 "2024-10-25T19:56:59Z")
It really is. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2072 "2024-10-25T20:02:00Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > It really is What are you, an eight-year-old? ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2073 "2024-10-25T20:08:51Z")
I’m an adult who understands that other well meaning adults can overcome their own shortcomings for the greater good. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2074 "2024-10-25T20:10:25Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > I’m an adult who understands that other well meaning adults can overcome their own shortcomings for the greater good And you’re willing to bet other people’s life on it! Golly gee, you’re SOOOOO BRAVE ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2075 "2024-10-25T20:10:54Z")
You’re a naive fool if you think just telling people to get along will solve all the world’s problems. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2076 "2024-10-25T20:34:55Z")
So, in which country is being Jewish punishable by death? If this EU-like proposal is anything like [andy’s](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1977), then I don’t see the Palestinians giving up franchise throughout Palestine. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2077 "2024-10-25T20:39:50Z")
You’re slaughtering tens of thousands of other people obstinately holding on to your state based on your apathy, ignorance, cynicism, and resentment. There’s a better way. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2078 "2024-10-25T20:40:21Z")
Opinion duly note. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2079 "2024-10-25T20:47:55Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > I don’t see the Palestinians giving up franchise throughout Palestine. Why would they have to give up franchise in Palestine, which would be in the West Bank and Gaza? If you expect “Palestine” to include Israel, why in the fuck would Israelis ever agree to give up franchise throughout Israel? > [@InfraBlue](#): > > You’re slaughtering tens of thousands of other people obstinately holding on to your state based on your apathy, ignorance, cynicism, and resentment. > > There’s a better way. You are correct - there IS a better way. Hamas could surrender, return the hostages (and even be pardoned for it, per Netanyahu’s offer, as well as get $100,000 per hostage from the CEO of SodaStream), and accept a two state solution. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2080 "2024-10-25T20:51:13Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > , in which country is being Jewish punishable by death? Palestine, for one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=103) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=105)