# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 110
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2181 "2024-10-26T12:31:00Z")
From initial googling, I think my “worse than 3 to 1” memory came from total casualties (including wounded), so I’ll go ahead and tentatively withdraw the claim about deaths (since the numbers in my head turned out to be confused). It appears that there’s not a huge amount of controversy over the total number of deaths in Gaza – 40-50,000 or thereabouts (so far), AFAICT. There is controversy over the total number of combatants killed – AFAICT, the IDF [has not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#idfclaims) actually provided clear and verifiable basis for their claims of combatant deaths. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2182 "2024-10-26T12:32:48Z")
Yes, I’ve been surprised that Israel and the Gaza ministry of health have consistently published similar numbers for total dead. I’m inclined to accept those numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2183 "2024-10-26T12:35:49Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It is an estimate based on all the information that the Israeli army synthesizes, including combat reports and footage, analysis of video from drones and recon, and when possible actual examination of the battlefield. …they haven’t revealed the full methodology. We’ve got as much reason to believe this number as we do the idea that there is gold being hidden in bunkers under hospitals in Lebanon. If you want to go with calculated guess, that’s fine with me. > [@Babale](#): > > 17,000/52,000 is 32.6% or just a hair below 1 in 3. But that also uses the highest estimate of casualties and the lowest estimate of combatants… The highest estimate of casualties, including those that are dying from sickness, illness, famine, or buried is in the hundreds of thousands. Again: this is where most experts think the death toll actually is. The IDF have literally been chasing people from one end of Gaza to another. Most of the population have been displaced. The north has been cut off from most food, water and medicine for a month and everywhere else is in very bad shape. You are literally living in cloud cuckoo land. From the numbers I posted earlier: > [@flash update](#): > > On 20 October, the MoH published the breakdown of 40,717 out of 42,010 fatalities as of 7 October 2024 for whom full details have been documented by MoH (also available on the Health Cluster’s Unified Dashboard [here](https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiODAxNTYzMDYtMjQ3YS00OTMzLTkxMWQtOTU1NWEwMzE5NTMwIiwidCI6ImY2MTBjMGI3LWJkMjQtNGIzOS04MTBiLTNkYzI4MGFmYjU5MCIsImMiOjh9)); according to MoH, these include 13,319 children, 7,216 women, 3,447 elderly, and 16,735 men. > **[Humanitarian Situation Update #231 | Gaza Strip | United Nations Office for...](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/humanitarian-situation-update-231-gaza-strip)** > > Israeli strikes have reportedly impacted all three partially functional hospitals in the North Gaza governorate, with injured patients dying at Kamal Adwan Hospital amidst a lack of life-saving medical supplies, fuel and food, while communication... By your numbers, almost every single man in Gaza that has been killed is Hamas, along with a good proportion of the women and children. You agree that can’t be right? (And unlike the IDF methodology, you can check these numbers yourself.) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2184 "2024-10-26T12:36:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > AFAICT, the IDF [has not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#idfclaims) actually provided clear and verifiable basis for their claims of combatant deaths. FYI there is a concentrated misinformation campaign around this topic on Wikipedia: > **[Pirate Wires | Technology, Politics, Culture](https://www.piratewires.com/)** > > Technology, politics, culture ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2185 "2024-10-26T12:40:11Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The highest estimate of casualties, including those that are dying from sickness, illness, famine, or buried is in the hundreds of thousands. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You are literally living in cloud cuckoo land. You’re claiming hundred **s** of thousands of deaths, so at least 4 times what Hamas claims or more, and you’re telling me I’m living in cuckoo land… OK buddy. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2186 "2024-10-26T12:43:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It appears that there’s not a huge amount of controversy over the total number of deaths in Gaza – 40-50,000 or thereabouts (so far), AFAICT. There is controversy over the total number of combatants killed – AFAICT, the IDF [has not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#idfclaims) actually provided clear and verifiable basis for their claims of combatant deaths. Aside from discussion of the particular quoted source there, which as I noted is incredibly biased - Is the international norm for countries to release full breakdowns of their methodology during an ongoing conflict, or is that typically something done post mortem? Given your background, you’d likely know more than I do on the topic - that’s a genuine question. Given that the Israeli estimates match up with what both sides agreed on once the dust settled in prior conflict, is there a specific reason to doubt these estimates even if the methodology isn’t publically available yet? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2187 "2024-10-26T12:48:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You’re claiming hundred **s** of thousands of deaths, so at least 4 times what Hamas claims or more, and you’re telling me I’m living in cuckoo land… OK buddy. …I didn’t make that claim. I said the highest estimate of casualties, including those that are dying from sickness, illness, famine, or buried is in the hundreds of thousands. > [@Lancet](#): > > In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths. Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death[9](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext#) to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza. Using the 2022 Gaza Strip population estimate of 2 375 259, this would translate to 7·9% of the total population in the Gaza Strip. A report from Feb 7, 2024, at the time when the direct death toll was 28 000, estimated that without a ceasefire there would be between 58 260 deaths (without an epidemic or escalation) and 85 750 deaths (if both occurred) by Aug 6, 2024.[10](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext#) [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext) It is a very broad estimate. And the reality is with Israel literally cutting off the borders, not allowing in independent journalists and killing Palestinian ones, the deliberate targeting of the healthcare system, it will be years, perhaps decades, before we know the true impact on the Palestinian people. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2188 "2024-11-05T18:04:07Z")
Netanyahu has fired Gallant: > **[Netanyahu fires Defense Minister Yoav Gallant](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-827716)** > > Israel Katz is said to replace him, according to the statement.  In his place will be Israel Katz, who (AFAICT from googling) is another right-wing extremist. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2189 "2024-11-05T22:19:31Z")
I came here to post the same thing. Gift link Israel’s Netanyahu Fires Defense Minister, Citing ‘Gaps’ in Approach to War [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/05/world/middleeast/netanyahu-fires-gallant.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.Xk4.JNBY.CecNrQef83EA](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/05/world/middleeast/netanyahu-fires-gallant.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Xk4.JNBY.CecNrQef83EA) More bad news from the middle east. 😢 ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2190 "2024-11-21T13:09:28Z")
Will never happen, the hate is too strong on both sides ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2024, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2191 "2024-11-30T00:33:46Z")
…Gaza has almost completely dropped from the news. But the situation on the ground is at its worst. And will not get better. From the latest flash update: > **[Humanitarian Situation Update #241 | Gaza Strip | United Nations Office for...](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/humanitarian-situation-update-241-gaza-strip)** > > In North Gaza governorate, more mass casualty incidents are reported, and Kamal Adwan Hospital continues to come under attack.  > [@](#): > > Of the UN’s 41 attempts to support people besieged in North Gaza so far in November, all were either denied (37) or impeded (four). > > … > > - Of the total number of children admitted for outpatient treatment of acute malnutrition since the beginning of 2024, two thirds were recorded in the past five months, signalling a worsening nutritional situation across Gaza. Israel are still not letting anything get through to the north. Its starvation. Its genocide. > [@](#): > > - With the onset of heavy rains, over 1.6 million people living in makeshift shelters — nearly half a million of whom are in flood-prone areas urgently need adequate shelter. There are pictures and video of tents just sitting in water. Children wading in knee-deep water. > [@](#): > > Describing the situation as an “unparalleled humanitarian catastrophe,” the HC stated that at the same time that civilians are struggling to survive amid relentless hostilities, the Israeli authorities have banned commercial imports for over six weeks and armed looting of humanitarian convoys has surged. “In 2024, UN trucks have been looted 75 times – including 15 such attacks since 4 November alone – and armed people have broken into UN facilities on 34 occasions. Just last week, one driver was shot in the head and hospitalized, along with another truck driver. This Saturday, no less than 98 trucks were looted in a single attack with trucks being damaged or stolen,” Mr. Hadi added. The Hamas police and security infrastructure that have been largely protecting and securing aid deliveries have been systematically taken out, and lawlessness and gangs have filled in the gaps. All entirely by design. What aid is getting through is being hijacked, reports on the ground say all with the tacit approval of the IDF. > [@](#): > > - On 20 November, the Palestinian Civil Defense (PCD) [reported](https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1MhCffcNig/?mibextid=WC7FNe) that one of its teams was directly hit while trying to rescue people under rubble in As Sabra area southwest of Gaza city, resulting in the death of a PCD member and the injury of three others. The PCD [added](https://www.facebook.com/share/p/19Y3feAghz/?mibextid=WC7FNe) that this was the eighteenth incident in which rescue teams had been hit during rescue missions, with a total of 87 PCD members killed to date. In a subsequent update on 21 November, the PCD reported that 304 of its members had been injured and 21 detained, and a total of 17 PCD centres had either been damaged or destroyed, along with 56 firefighting, rescue and ambulance vehicles. The statement highlighted that all Civil Defense activities remained blocked in North Gaza governorate. In a further update on 26 November, PCD announced that all of their fire, rescue, and ambulance vehicles have stopped working in Gaza governorate due to the lack of fuel. So basically since the 20th of November, there have been no Civil Defense operating in northern Gaza. There is no fuel for their vehicles. The last fire engine destroyed a couple of weeks ago. And they were being targeted and arrested. What this means is that there is no rescue coming. People trapped under the rubble at least had a chance before. But there is no way for anyone to accurately record the death toll now. Any numbers you hear, as I’ve been saying for a while, are a significant undercount. > [@](#): > > While the MSF team survived, the attack killed 20 people and seriously injured 10 others, added MSF, citing MoH figures. Since October 2023, at least 337 aid workers, including 330 Palestinians and seven foreigners have been killed; this includes 251 UN staff (of whom 247 were UNRWA staff members), 33 Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) staff and volunteers, and at least 53 other aid workers with national and international NGOs. Since the start of this war, the IDF have targeted aid workers and UN staff, killing hundreds. > [@](#): > > Kamal Adwan Hospital in North Gaza has continued to come under attack, with at least seven attacks [recorded](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/un-human-rights-office-opt-grave-breaches-international-law-occupied-palestinian-territory-must-end-enar) through open sources by the UN Human Rights Office (OHCHR) in OPT between the onset of the most recent Israeli military operation in North Gaza on 6 October and 21 November. On 21 November, a drone attack [reportedly](https://twitter.com/DrTedros/status/1860007607097831559) damaged the hospital’s electricity generator and water tank and resulted in the injury of four hospital staff and two patient companions. I challenge _anyone_ here to provide a logical explanation within the confines of international humanitarian law that explains what they are doing to Kamal Adwan Hospital. Weeks ago it was raided. Hospital staff detained or arrested and questioned. When released, the director of the hospital, Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya found that the IDF had [murdered](https://www.972mag.com/kamal-adwan-hospital-hussam-abu-safia/) his 15 year old son, who had been sheltering in the hospital, by drone. Since then, Israel have continued the siege on the hospital. Not letting in supplies. Bombing it. Shelling it. Shooting it. Today they killed Dr. Ahmad Ziad Al-Kahlout, Head of ICU as he was going into work. Reports that Indonesian Hospital has come under increasing attacks in the last 72 hours. Patients sitting in darkness. I don’t want to hear about “tunnels under Al Shifa” any more. To the defenders in this thread, what justifies these attacks? Israel have complete and utter domination of these hospitals. They can raid them, inspect them, and kill with inpunity at arms length by drone. If Hamas were using it as a base, or for storage, or were “hiding in tunnels” we would know about it by now. I said this a year ago. And people accused me of being a “mouthpiece of Hamas.” They accused me of “blood libel.” In this very thread only a few weeks ago a couple of people made jokes about me and a pager. But I wasn’t wrong then. And I’m not wrong now. Israels obligations under the Geneva conventions and international humanitarian law are very clear. And what they did to Al Shifa was a war crime, what they are doing at Kamal Adwan is a war crime. > [@](#): > > Skin and respiratory infections, acute diarrheal illnesses and other viral diseases continue to rise across Gaza, with over 300 children treated daily at the Nasser Medical Complex in Khan Younis, Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) [reported](https://www.msf.org/lives-children-and-newborns-put-risk-living-conditions-gaza) on 22 November. Between June and October 2024, the NGO treated 3,421 babies and other children under the age of five at the inpatient pediatric ward of Nasser hospital, 22 per cent of them for diarrhea-related illnesses and nearly nine per cent for meningitis. Skin and respiratory infections, acute diarrheal illnesses and other viral diseases. Over 300 children treated daily at just one (still operating) hospital. Gaza is a concentration camp. And its a genocide folks. > [@](#): > > According to the Nutrition Cluster, between 1 and 23 November, 3,410 children were admitted for outpatient treatment of acute malnutrition, and an average of 4,700 children were admitted for outpatient treatment of acute malnutrition each month between July and October. > > … > > Moreover, between 10 and 31 October, the Nutrition Cluster has observed a significant increase in the admission of children suffering from Severe Acute Malnutrition (SAM) with nutritional edema, where patients show swelling caused by fluid retention in the tissues, which is an indicator of lack of protein in diets. Cases have surged from 10 per cent before October to 74 per cent of admitted cases in the two stabilization centres (SC) in the Deir al Balah governorate > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, the SC at the Kamal Adwan Hospital in North Gaza remains closed since the intensification of hostilities in the governorate in early October 2024, despite spiraling needs in the governorate and the [appeal](https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15SjSWp7mz/?mibextid=WC7FNe) by the hospital director for the immediate opening of a humanitarian corridor through which medical supplies, surgical medical delegations, baby food and therapeutic milk could enter North Gaza. So basically there are no stabilization centres for malnutrition in the north. No humanitarian corridors. Severe shortage of baby food and milk. > [@](#): > > Harsh winter temperatures compounded by heavy rains and rising sea tides are further exacerbating sewage accumulation, the spread of disease, and risk of collapse of damaged buildings where many families have sought refuge. > [@](#): > > In August, the Inter-Cluster Coordination Group (ICCG), chaired by OCHA, developed and activated a comprehensive winterization plan targeting 2.1 million people and requiring US$242 million. A reminder that it isn’t just the bombs that will be killing Palestinians. With millions of people displaced, living in tents or bombed out buildings, aid agencies are having to develop plans to protect flood-prone areas filled with tents with sandbags. Sewage systems are broken. Rubbish just left to accumulate. > [@](#): > > . As a result, only 154,000 people could be provided with shelter assistance in Khan Younis, Deir al Balah and Rafah in the past three months; 846,000 people are still in need of urgent assistance in these governorates. More than 36,000 tarpaulins and some 58,000 sealing-off kits – which would be enough for over 76,000 families or roughly 400,000 people – are currently outside the Strip, awaiting entry, with the Cluster continuing to procure more items. At a rate of 11 trucks per week, the Cluster estimates that it will take at least another eight weeks to bring these vital items into the Strip. A reminder: this is all _deliberate_. It isn’t an “act of god.” This isn’t a storm or an earthquake. The aid is being deliberately held up at the border. As always, much more at the link. > **[Humanitarian Situation Update #241 | Gaza Strip | United Nations Office for...](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/humanitarian-situation-update-241-gaza-strip)** > > In North Gaza governorate, more mass casualty incidents are reported, and Kamal Adwan Hospital continues to come under attack.  No matter how much the deniers will argue, the plan is pretty clear. Northern Gaza will be annexed, then settled. The rest of Gaza will suffer a slow, quiet death. Eventually, any Palestinians left in Gaza will be allowed to and “encouraged” to leave. Don’t take my word on it. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotrich-says-half-of-gazans-can-be-encouraged-to-leave-within-two-years/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotrich-says-half-of-gazans-can-be-encouraged-to-leave-within-two-years/) Don’t believe the “they are just extremists” line. They’ve been saying it from the start. The tactics and strategy match the rhetoric. As they’ve been “killing Hamas” the seige hasn’t been let up: things have just gotten worse. And they don’t care about the hostages. They never did. The Isreali government are just hoping they die. It will make it easier for them if they did. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2192 "2024-11-30T23:41:35Z")
…the IDF assassinated Chef Mahmoud today. > And by assassinated, I mean a drone was hovering over the neighbourhood until Chef Mahmoud walked out his door, then was murdered. A World Central Kitchen vehicle targeted and 5 workers killed. > **[World Central Kitchen pauses Gaza work after car carrying staff hit by...](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g2g6w4109o)** > > Israel said the target of the strike was involved in the October 7 attacks and also worked at the charity World Central Kitchen. But this time the workers were all Palestinian, so you won’t see the same outrage from the west, even the WCK have bought into the narrative that one of the workers “may have been there on October 7th.” They are gaslighting here:not promising an investigation as to why the WCK car was targeted, but demanding an investigation as to why “WCK and the international community are hiring of workers who took part in… terrorist activity against Israel”. It’s disgusting. And they are going to get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2193 "2024-12-01T16:06:43Z")
The lead article in the NY Times today says the cease-fire is “largely holding” and then goes on to list various new bombings by Israel, including the assassination of the World Central Kitchen people. The title should have said “Israel violates cease-fire, kills World Central Kitchen workers.” Fuck the Times. p.s. The article did not list any attacks initiated by Hezbollah, so the attacks were all caused by Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2194 "2024-12-01T17:05:55Z")
If you were following, you’d know that the ceasefire is with Hezbollah in Lebanon, not with Hamas in Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2195 "2024-12-01T18:19:36Z")
I was following, I knew that, but I confess my post didn’t make that clear. WCK wasn’'t in the cease-fire zone but Israel DID break the cease fire without provocation and they ALSO attacked WCK in a separate area. p.s. – When I post when I’m really pissed off I often come off sounding confused. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2024, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2196 "2024-12-23T05:53:09Z")
…so today on Twitter, I logged on to see videos of dead Palestinians lying in the rubble _being eaten by cats_ if you want to know what stage of the genocide we are in. Cats just swarming over the bodies. Ammnesty International have released a report concluding Israel is committing [genocide](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/). HRW have concluded Israel are committing the “crime of extermination” and “acts of [genocide](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/12/19/israels-crime-extermination-acts-genocide-gaza)” in Gaza. Netanyahu and Gallant have had arrest warrants issued for “crimes against humanity and war crimes.” Add to that the opinion from multiple historians and scholars, other human rights agencies, the case against Israel currently working its way though the International Court of Justice, I don’t think there is room for any doubt now. Israel is committing genocide. And we let it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2197 "2024-12-26T22:10:25Z")
…yesterday Israel assassinated five journalists. They were waiting in a clearly marked press vehicle outside Al-Awda hospital, while waiting for news about journalist Ayman Al-Jadi’s wife, who was having a child. There is video of the aftermath of the strike. This isn’t that video: it’s video of Ayman before the strike, as he has dinner to celebrate about to become a father. > > > Gaza Notifications @gazanotice So that’s 201 journalists killed now, according to the Gaza media office. 133 according to the CPJ, which uses a much stricter definition. Kamal Adwan hospital has been under siege for over a couple of months. It’s been raided at least once. The IDF murdered the hospital directors son while he had been taken away for questioning. Its been targeted multiple times by bombs and shooting. About an hour ago, 5 medical workers were killed in a [strike](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/director-of-northern-gaza-hospital-says-5-staffers-killed-in-israeli-airstrike/) by the IDF. It included a pediatrician, a laboratory specialist, a medical equipment technician and two paramedics. Yesterday 3 infants died of hypothermia. A reminder that nearly the entire population, almost 2 million people, have been displaced, most multiple times. Many have had their homes destroyed. Many living in tents, in bombed out buildings, in the rubble, in make-shift encampments, with very little protection from the weather and the elements. A couple of days ago the American ambassador to Israel criticised the recent fews-net report on food insecurity because the civilian data estimates (from November) of between 65-75,000 people in the northern governorate wasn’t accurate. Lew suggests a number between 7 and 15,000 (based on COGNAT and UNRWA estimates) are more accurate. > So my question to the ambassador is…where did those people go? It’s a tacit admission that ethnic cleansing is going on. That the northern governorate is being depopulated rapidly on a massive scale. Here’s the latest flash update. I don’t have time to summarise. But it looks like Indonesian Hospital has finally been forcibly evacuated and is shut down. Food security has again deteriorated. Miscarriages on the rise. > [@flash update](#): > > UNICEF has reported newborns gasping for air, toddlers with sepsis, and children ripped apart by shrapnel or crushed by debris arriving daily at the facility. More devastating evidence of the ongoing genocide at the link. > **[Humanitarian Situation Update #249 | Gaza Strip | United Nations Office for...](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/humanitarian-situation-update-249-gaza-strip)** > > North Gaza remains under a near-total siege. Since 1 December, Israeli authorities have denied 48 of 52 UN attempts to coordinate humanitarian access, while four approved movements all faced impediments. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2198 "2024-12-28T02:30:48Z")
…not that anyone cares any more: but Kamal Adwan Hospital has been raided, many hospital staff and some patients detained and disappeared, others forcibly removed and forced south. A skeleton crew of medical staff have been allowed to remain along with any patients who absolutely can’t be moved. Kamal Adwan was the last remaining Palestinian hospital in the north. Shutting it down is a warcrime. Just adding it to the IDF’s list. I hope one day all those who either ordered or perpetrated this genocide face justice. Despite the confident assertions from many here that this wasn’t the case: the north is being cleared and Palestinians won’t be allowed to return. The IDF have been systematically flattening the refugee camps. Expelling the occupants and either killing or disappearing those who remain. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2199 "2024-12-28T03:38:36Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …yesterday Israel assassinated five journalists. They were waiting in a clearly marked press vehicle outside Al-Awda hospital Israel admits to targeting them, but claims they were terrorists. I usually avoid this thread because it’s so depressing, and there’s nothing i can do about it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2200 "2024-12-28T04:11:29Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Israel admits to targeting them, but claims they were terrorists. …they claim that _everyone_ is Hamas. Apparently according to some that used to frequent this thread: _I’m_ Hamas. I’m a “propaganda tool for Hamas” which makes me the equivalent of these fallen journalists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=109) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=111)