# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 117
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2321 "2024-12-31T16:33:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Volume of ordnance used does not prove genocidal intent. The US dropped more bombs on Vietnam than we did in all of WWII - was the Vietnam war a genocide? I didn’t claim this as evidence of genocide, merely that this current conflict is way over on the wrong side of the just / injust spectrum (and I do think it’s a genocide, but not only on the basis of this data point). And it’s exactly the same logic as Vietnam; the vast ordnance used was and is a bad indicator, and we now know about numerous war crimes. > [@Smapti](#): > > Which are also not genocidal acts. The evacuation of northern Gaza is to protect civilians by clearing them out of the areas where fighting is taking place. Again, we’re talking about atrocities / war crimes here, not some singular event being evidence of genocide. And, as cited upthread, this “protection” of Gazans including not letting them return to their homes is against international law. Agreed? > [@Smapti](#): > > The UN has had an anti-Israel bias for decades and is little more at this point than an extension of the Russian government. Ditto the ICJ. Human Rights Watch are radical pacifists who would have agreed with Gandhi that the Jews should have allowed Hitler to kill them all. I do not acknowledge them as unbiased sources. Brilliant. Everyone is against Israel including, as I say, some Israelis and Jewish diaspora. It’s all bias. And, for this reason, you can just ignore any and all reporting of war crimes. > [@Smapti](#): > > I have mentioned WWII and the Civil War, but funny enough nobody wants to talk about the civilian casualties the Allies and the Union inflicted, let alone say that it was an unforgivable atrocity. I’ll do it right now: any war crimes committed in those conflicts should be condemned in the strongest terms and the perpetrators (or those that gave the commands) should face (or should have faced) justice. And I also think it’s a red herring to say one event makes _a whole conflict_ an atrocity; you can have a just war with some outlying events, or you could have something like the Gaza bombardment where war crimes seem intrinsic to the campaign. > [@Smapti](#): > > That depends, because in Gaza “refugee camp” has a completely different meaning than the common sense one Brilliant. So what would be a war crime. Speaking hypothetically, what could the IDF do that you would condemn? > [@Smapti](#): > > They are anti-Israel because they deny Israel’s right to exist and cheer for its destruction. Who? Oxfam? Reuters? A cite for any of that? > [@Smapti](#): > > Give me your smoking gun, then. Your incident where you can 100% say there is absolutely no legitimate military purpose being served, the source is unimpeachable, the facts are not in dispute, there’s no excuse for this, the only way this makes sense is if Israel is trying to indiscriminately kill as many Arabs as possible incident. Obviously a ridiculous standard given that you will accept claims of “Yeah, Hamas was there” with no evidence at all. Since it’s based on nothing, the IDF can always say that. Meanwhile, the rest of us can form tentative conclusions based on the evidence available, accepting that in an ongoing conflict (and with journalists not allowed in) there is some fog of war. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2322 "2024-12-31T20:56:25Z")
…what the hell are you talking about? And what the fuck did I just read? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2025, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2323 "2025-01-02T03:11:02Z")
…the last flash update for the year. > [@](#): > > - Heavy rains and cold weather further deteriorate the survival conditions of displaced families, with tents flooded and damaged, and at least five newborns having reportedly died of hypothermia. > - Israeli forces raided and rendered Kamal Awan Hospital out of service, and the World Health Organization urges support to ensure that hospitals in North Gaza can become functional again. > - Recent water quality surveillance reveals alarming rates of microbiological contamination and a UN mission to displacement sites in Gaza city finds abysmal water, sanitation, and hygiene conditions. > [@](#): > > Visiting Jabalya on 29 December, OCHA OPT Acting Head of Office stated that the basics of human survival are being destroyed in Gaza. He noted that all attempts by humanitarians to reach besieged people in North Gaza over the past two months have been denied, except for a handful of missions that went ahead despite impediments. People in Jabalya continue to face appalling conditions, with continued airstrikes, hospitals being hit, health workers being killed, insufficient water and food, accumulation of solid waste, and sewage overflow. Between 6 October and 30 December 2024, the UN attempted to reach besieged areas in North Gaza 164 times; of these, 148 attempts received outright denials by the Israeli authorities and 16 were impeded. > [@](#): > > As temperatures continue to plummet in Gaza, at least five newborns aged between three days and one month reportedly died of hypothermia in IDP tents in central and southern Gaza between 24 and 29 December, according to the MoH. Among them are a 20-day-old baby who succumbed to the cold in his tent in Deir al Balah on the night of 28 December, and whose twin brother remains in intensive care at the Al Aqsa Hospital according to [media](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/12/29/twenty-day-old-baby-dies-of-cold-in-gaza-fifth-such-fatality-this-winter) sources, and three babies who died due to the extreme cold between 24 and 26 December in their tents in Al Mawasi, in eastern Khan Younis, to which the Israeli military has instructed Palestinians to go. If you are wondering what the conditions are like for many in Gaza: its like this. > > Tents flooded with rain water. And even tents now are in short supply. > [@](#): > > Only a trickle of tents and other shelter assistance continues to reach the Gaza Strip. Between 1 and 26 December, just 24 trucks carrying shelter items were able to enter central and southern Gaza, while 136 trucks entered northern Gaza, according to preliminary data by the Shelter Cluster. > > … > > On 30 December, the Palestinian Civil Defense [reported](https://www.facebook.com/dcdgovps? __cft__ %5b0%5d=AZWYYGrFt5x2j_Tq22rDqpjBXIgjl6ZuiEwld_84rBQYNPBEbwvX40imUU2SmTaEV1OCPHlLzmkgA2Q_sp7Vce1bf5KyQWxU8mtX0x00Yp1ZUXnioHHvNlqYLaghUH_dlWpOTceMUeRzjdB6slVMkntLwwE-761_knKCqwqWRmPCrF4U0K549lMGIB2WMcfY3sc& __tn__ =-UC%2CP-R) that it received hundreds of distressed calls from displaced people whose shelters had been flooded with rainwater in the previous two days, appealing for urgent support especially for families living in displacement sites in Gaza city, the Al Mawasi area of Khan Younis, western Deir al Balah and Rafah. Regarding newborns: > [@](#): > > Approximately 7,700 newborns lack access to life-saving care, [warns](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sl83RhG7LFr2CDZLpEZD_AMuRiqgm_-B/view) UNICEF, as neonatal care capacity continues to shrink across the Gaza Strip, particularly in northern Gaza, which prior to October 2023 accounted for nearly 60 per cent of total neonatal hospital beds. In the North Gaza governorate, all neonatal care bed capacity in MoH hospitals has now been lost, while in the Gaza governorate, only two non-MoH hospitals continue providing newborn care amid major constraints –the Patients Friends Association Hospital and the Al Sahaba Medical Complex – with merely five neonatal beds available in each. Both facilities face dire shortages of incubators, high frequency ventilators, essential medications and supplies, and rely on a single oxygen plant in Gaza city, which lacks spare parts and is insufficient to meet rising needs. Zero neo natal bed capacity in the north now. > [@](#): > > Across all sites, there is a dire lack of latrines and hygiene supplies, growing sewage and solid waste accumulation, and open defecation was observed at two locations. At one makeshift site, people are forced to walk several hundred metres to another heavily congested IDP site to use a latrine. Due to insecurity and the lack of lighting, women and girls are forced to use containers inside their tents at night. No toilets. Security breaking down. > [@](#): > > - Only one site has received food assistance, while the other three have not received any type of food or nutrition assistance since their establishment in December 2024. Meanwhile, hot meals distributed at nearby community kitchens could only a reach a fraction of households and they rely on nylon and plastic as an energy source in the absence of cooking gas and firewood. Food distribution breaking down in the so-called “safe zones.” > [@](#): > > - Demolition and detonation of residential buildings and blocks continue to be reported across the Gaza strip. On 26 December, the Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR) [reported](https://pchrgaza.org/israeli-occupation-forces-perpetuates-genocide-accelerated-destruction-of-residential-neighborhoods-and-hospitals-amid-depopulation-of-northern-gaza/) that in recent weeks there has been a significant escalation in the widespread destruction of residential neighbourhoods and civilian infrastructure, including hospitals, roads, and electricity, water and sewage networks. “Entire neighbourhoods … have been rendered uninhabitable, reduced to mere rubble, compelling most residents to evacuate,” threatening the future, stability and survival of Gaza’s residents, according to PCHR. Destruction in northern Gaza and Rafah in particular has reached “unprecedented levels,” PCHR stressed, whereby Israeli forces have deployed “advanced weaponry, including explosive-laden robots to level entire neighbourhoods into rubble.” They are systematically flattening much of Gaza, in particular the north and the south in Rafah. Squeezing them into less and less space. Much more, as always, at the link. > **[Humanitarian Situation Update #251 | Gaza Strip | United Nations Office for...](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/humanitarian-situation-update-251-gaza-strip)** > > Heavy rains and cold weather further deteriorate the survival conditions of displaced families, with tents flooded and damaged, and at least five newborns having reportedly died of hypothermia. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2025, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2324 "2025-01-02T23:23:28Z")
…from the Secretary General of Amnesty International: > [@](#): > > We are extremely alarmed by the latest information we have received regarding the whereabouts of Dr. Hussam Abu Safiyyah, director of Kamal Adwan Hospital. He should now be considered as victim of enforced disappeared, and as such at great risk of torture and ill-treatment. Israel authorities must urgently disclose the location of Dr. Hussam Abu Safiyyah. > > Dr. Abu Safiyyah was reportedly arrested on December 27, 2024, when IDF forces raided Kamal Adwan Hospital. Video footage from that day shows the senior doctor walking toward an IDF armored vehicle before being taken for questioning. Following the incident, an IDF spokesperson confirmed his arrest and stated that he had been transferred for interrogation. However, since then, no further information has been provided about his whereabouts. > > But on Thursday January 1st, the Israeli military informed Physicians for Human Rights that they have no record of Dr. Abu Safiyyah’s detention. This response came after PHRI, acting on behalf of Dr. Abu Safiyyah’s family requested information to facilitate a lawyer’s visit on January 2. > > In its response to PHRI’s inquiry, the military stated: > “Following your inquiry, we would like to inform you that a review has found no indication of the arrest or detention of the individual in question.” > Dr. Abu Safiyyah has been “disappeared.” He isn’t the first. Hundreds, if not thousands of Palestinians have been taken from Gaza and taken god-knows-where. Family, despite repeated enquiries, are not told anything. But Dr. Abu Safiyyah’s approaching and getting into an Israeli armoured vehicle was captured on video. Multiple eyewitnesses say they saw him get detained (and they report far worse things than were captured and released on video) There really is no _doubt_ that he is in custody. More gas-lighting, more lies, more warcrimes from the IDF. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2325 "2025-01-15T19:56:33Z")
> **[Israel and Hamas reach deal on Gaza ceasefire and hostage release](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ceasefire-israel-hamas-gaza-palestinians-rcna160847)** > > The Biden administration called for a final push before the president leaves office, with many seeing the Trump inauguration as an unofficial deadline. I gotta say - agreeing to end hostilities, withdraw all forces, and exchange prisoners is an odd way of going about killing everyone and colonizing the region. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2326 "2025-01-15T20:12:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I gotta say - agreeing to end hostilities, withdraw all forces, and exchange prisoners is an odd way of going about killing everyone and colonizing the region. And yet it happened with the same behind the back shenanigans as the hostages in Iran when Reagan took office. Same old playbook. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2327 "2025-01-15T20:43:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I gotta say - agreeing to end hostilities, withdraw all forces, and exchange prisoners is an odd way of going about killing everyone and colonizing the region. It’s clearly part of their 5d chess plan to commit genocide while avoiding criticism by not committing genocide and drawing shitloads of criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2328 "2025-01-15T23:06:10Z")
I’m sure Banquet\_Bear and iiiandyiii will be by any time now to admit they were wrong and that Israel was never attempting to exterminate the Gazan population. Also, monkeys will fly out of my butt. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2329 "2025-01-15T23:08:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m sure Banquet\_Bear and iiiandyiii will be by any time now to admit they were wrong and that Israel was never attempting to exterminate the Gazan population. I’m not sure iiandyiiii actually made such a claim; but Banquet Bear will of course claim that whatever is currently happening is _proof_ of Israel’s genocide. I’m sure he will be along to explain why this is clearly the case shortly. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2330 "2025-01-15T23:51:08Z")
Cite for this claim about me, or retract it, please. The ceasefire is great news. Should have happened long ago, but better late than never. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2331 "2025-01-15T23:57:20Z")
I’m quite sure I never claimed Israel was trying to exterminate all Gazans. I did claim, many times, that Netanyahu and his allies were deliberately prolonging the conflict in order to benefit themselves politically (at the expense of many Gazan civilians’ lives), and probably also to benefit Trump and hurt Biden. I still think this is, more likely than not, true. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2332 "2025-01-16T01:24:53Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m not sure iiandyiiii actually made such a claim Perhaps I’ve confused him with one of the other “iSrAeL iS dOiNg a gEnOcIDe” nitwits who helped elect Trump. If so, then I apologize, and I’m sure those other people will be by eventually to admit their wrongness. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2333 "2025-01-16T04:29:04Z")
I’ll admit I’m wrong about Israel when the kids shot in the head are miraculously unshot. This is a ceasefire (which only kicks in on Sunday - meanwhile, [Israel continues to murder civilians right up to the line](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/jan/15/israel-gaza-war-live-ceasefire-hostage-deal-benjamin-netanyahu-hamas?filterKeyEvents=false&page=with%3Ablock-678853238f08f12e252417fa#block-678853238f08f12e252417fa)) not an erasure of all Israel has done so far. It’s great news. good for Gaza and for Israel. Especially the 33 hostages and the 1100 prisoners. But I’m not going to pretend it unmurders babies, unploughs olive groves or rebuilds rubble. Israel was pulled away from the brink, and that’s great. But don’t expect me to pretend it wasn’t right there, as well. And this: > [@Smapti](#): > > an odd way of going about […snip…] colonizing the region. I was unaware this ceasefire included withdrawal from the settler colonies all over Palestine. Maybe you can link to that part? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2334 "2025-01-16T05:36:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I was unaware this ceasefire included withdrawal from the settler colonies all over Palestine. I was unaware there were settler colonies in Gaza. Maybe you can link to that part? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2335 "2025-01-16T05:57:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But I’m not going to pretend it… rebuilds rubble. It literally stipulates that Israel will be providing humanitarian aid and rebuilding hospitals. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2336 "2025-01-16T06:55:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I was unaware there were settler colonies in Gaza Palestine is more than Gaza. > [@Smapti](#): > > It literally stipulates that Israel will be providing humanitarian aid and rebuilding hospitals. People don’t live in hospitals. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2337 "2025-01-16T14:02:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Smapti](#): > > > > I was unaware there were settler colonies in Gaza > > Palestine is more than Gaza. I’m _so sorry_ that you won’t get to see your dream of the settler colonies of Haifa and Tel Aviv being ethnically cleansed. That must be really, really hard for you ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2338 "2025-01-16T14:23:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I gotta say - agreeing to end hostilities, withdraw all forces, and exchange prisoners is an odd way of going about killing everyone and colonizing the region. > [@Babale](#): > > It’s clearly part of their 5d chess plan to commit genocide while avoiding criticism by not committing genocide and drawing shitloads of criticism. Yes, any conflict that ends, or might end, with a ceasefire means that no genocide was committed. I’ll go let the janjaweed know they’re off the hook. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2339 "2025-01-16T14:38:58Z")
So, how does one sign a ceasefire with an entity that must be destroyed? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2340 "2025-01-16T14:50:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > how does one sign a ceasefire with an entity that must be destroyed? Well, the ceasefire deal is a bad one, and if it’s true that Trump pressured Netanyahu into taking it, it’s pretty disastrous (which is why I never bought the idea that Trump is better for Israel than Kamala). Getting the hostages back is good, but releasing hundreds of Hamasniks is something we should draw a red fucking line on. Especially given that many of the specific people demanded by Hamas are convicted of murder. That’s precisely how we got into this mess, with the Shalit deal (which was also Netanyahu’s fuckup, by the way). And withdrawing from Gaza at this time is idiotic, and giving up control of the Philadelphi Corridor is also idiotic. We don’t want a repeat of Oct 7 or of the war that followed in a decade, and that’s what this “ceasefire” deal is going to lead to. Aside from the hostages returning, the only other benefit to this particular deal is that it should be incredibly politically damaging to Netanyahu. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=116) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=118)