# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/221 "2024-01-10T15:22:45Z")
Somebody tell me how this is different from [lebensraum.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum) This and the activities of illegal settlers are shameless territorial annexations. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/222 "2024-01-10T15:35:03Z")
> [@Sylvanz](#): > > I can’t say I didn’t see this coming. I don’t know why you would, since Smotrich and Ben Gvir and their ilk have been documented as saying this sort of bullshit in this and other threads multiple times the last couple months. This isn’t “coming”, this has been going on all along, and we’ve been talking about it. > [@Mr.Duality](#): > > Somebody tell me how this is different from [lebensraum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum) Anyone who tells you that Smotrich is not a Hamas or Nazi tier fanatic is lying to you. Netanyahu’s decision to prop up this monster to keep himself out of jail has been disastrous, and among his biggest crimes. Thankfully, it looks like Smotrich isn’t long for the Knesset. His plans will certainly not be carried out. [ https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-shows-gantzs-party-soaring-as-likud-nosedives-smotrich-out-of-knesset/ ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-shows-gantzs-party-soaring-as-likud-nosedives-smotrich-out-of-knesset/) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/223 "2024-01-10T17:00:43Z")
Yeah, the far right is in panic mode, and is trying to rally its base. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/224 "2024-01-10T17:18:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah, the far right is in panic mode, and is trying to rally its base It won’t work, but it _will_ make for quite a few breathless headlines half a world away. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/225 "2024-01-11T03:09:18Z")
I’m not familiar with those posters. I don’t read all the threads on everything, but I’ve seen a lot of things in the news and popping up in non-related threads. I would not be totally surprised if Gaza citizens were encouraged to settle else where. I’m not saying that I think this is official government policy; I doubt very much it is. However, if the opportunity arises to absorb Gaza into Israel, there may probably be at least a few in power that would not hesitate. I’m not an expert, but I’ve seen the actions and attitudes of some of the government and the settlers. It isn’t pretty. Again, I’m tired of dead children all over the damn world. Including the US and our idiotic gun (non) laws. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/226 "2024-03-05T06:06:20Z")
> [@Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/3840): > > …_everyone_ in this thread have 100% condemned the Hamas attacks of October the 7th and any atrocities that they committed. Including me. …except for the decapitated babies that you pretend don’t exist. And the tunnels you claim aren’t real. And the weapons caches in hospitals that you say were all planted. And the other rape allegations that you claim are Israeli propaganda. And the child soldiers you claim it’s Islamophobic to acknowledge the existence of. And Egypt’s refusal to open its border to refugees that you conveniently forget to mention while whinging about how the poor widdle terrorists have nowhere to go. And the fact that all this could have ended months ago, and could still end today, if Hamas actually cared enough about the lives of its people to surrender, because your blame-Israel-for-everything worldview obligates you to pretend that Hamas is utterly powerless and has no agency to make any decisions on its own. You really are the worst kind of useful idiot. You’ve fallen hook, line, and sinker for Islamist propaganda that any sensible person could’ve seen coming before Israel’s.counterstrike even started, because you let your squeamishness about the horrors of war override your rational ability to distinguish justified self-defense from a literal pogrom. I’m honestly surprised you haven’t claimed that 10/7 was a false flag. I don’t know why I even bother with you at this point and I should probably stop trying. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/227 "2024-03-05T06:36:49Z")
Dude, you’re only telling on yourself. You posted about something absolutely horrible that happened to Israeli prisoners of Hamas. You accused everyone in the thread of being okay with it. So when people tell you they’re not okay with it, you Pit them. Sure makes it seem like you were more interested in attacking posters than the actual horrors you described. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/228 "2024-03-05T07:10:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > …except for the decapitated babies that you pretend don’t exist. So, we’ve condemned what they’ve done, rather than what proven liars said they did? Yeah, big whoop. I mean, we all know you’ve never seen a boot you didn’t immediately want to lick, so sucking up to the genocidal IOF is very on-brand for you. But since your utterly stale “But, Hamas!” routine isn’t working in MPSIMS to excuse IOF atrocities, you wanna throw down here? Bring it, genocide denialist., ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/229 "2024-03-05T07:10:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > So when people tell you they’re not okay with it, you Pit them. Sure makes it seem like you were more interested in attacking posters than the actual horrors you described. I’m pitting him because his claimed denunciation of Hamas rings hollow when he constantly makes excuses for their atrocities or.outright denies that they happened, especially when the only times he mentioned this particular atrocity before now was to downplay it and accuse the Israelis of hypocrisy for complaining about it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/230 "2024-03-05T07:17:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So, we’ve condemned what they’ve done, rather than what proven liars said they did? Here’s what you had to say the last time rape allegations got brought up. > [@Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2259): > > However, bringing up the rapes _when people are pointing out the current war crimes the IDF is committing_ as some kind of trump card is getting old. > [@Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2268): > > Can you just _not_? It’s not in doubt there was rape, because there’s _always_ rape in war. It’s a little hard to believe you’re “condemning” something you’re so blase about. Rapes happen all the time in war, big whoop, Israel is worse anyway says the Hamas apologist. The only thing that’s changed is that now you can’t pretend Israel is making it all up when even your oh-so-authoritative UN officials are acknowledging it. > [@MrDibble](#): > > “But, Hamas!” Of course but Hamas. A thousand times but Hamas. Trying to pretend that the genocidal Islamist fanatics who launched a pogrom are somehow incidental to the war and don’t have anything to do with the war Israel is fighting (when you’re not pretending that they’re innocent victims of unjustified Israeli aggression) doesn’t sound like condemnation to me. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/231 "2024-03-05T07:31:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Rapes happen all the time in war, big whoop, Coming from _Mr_ “It’s War!”, I’ll just point out your beam, motherfucker. > [@Smapti](#): > > It’s a little hard to believe you’re “condemning” something you’re so blase about. Being dismissive of _your_ pathetic attempts to use rape for points is not the same as being blase about the _actual_ rapes. Hamas and the non-Hamas Gazans who committed sexual violence in October, and since, are evil scum. Unlike you, I don’t use the existence of evil scum to excuse greater evil. Because I’m not a bootlicker to the first fascist that comes knocking. > [@Smapti](#): > > Israel is worse anyway Yep. By a 30-to-one ratio, last I checked. > [@Smapti](#): > > The only thing that’s changed is that now you can’t pretend Israel is making it all up 🤨 > [@Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2268): > > It’s not in doubt there was rape You literally _just_ quoted me saying that. What a fucking idiot. > [@Smapti](#): > > Of course but Hamas. A thousand times but Hamas. This has a certain … cadence. Very Biblical … or Quranic. > [@Smapti](#): > > don’t have anything to do with the war Israel is fighting They don’t have anything to do with the genocide Israel is now committing (other than a convenient excuse) > [@Smapti](#): > > when you’re not pretending that they’re innocent victims of unjustified Israeli aggression Where have I ever done that? Cite or shut the fuck up, Nazi-lover. ETA: Oh, and since you’re suddenly now _sooo_ enamoured of what the UN has to say, and since _tu quoque_ is your favourite fallacy, what do you have to say about _this_ UN sexual violence report? [Claims of Israeli sexual assault of Palestinian women are credible, UN panel says | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says#:~:text=Israel%2DGaza%20war-,Claims%20of%20Israeli%20sexual%20assault%20of,are%20credible%2C%20UN%20panel%20says&text=UN%20experts%20say%20they%20have,calling%20for%20a%20full%20investigation). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/232 "2024-03-05T07:49:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Oh, and since you’re suddenly now _sooo_ enamoured of what the UN has to say, and since _tu quoque_ is your favourite fallacy, what do you have to say about _this_ UN sexual violence report? I’d say that the CNN article I quoted says the same thing and I don’t approve of it when Israelis do it either. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Where have I ever done that? About five seconds ago, when you said; > [@MrDibble](#): > > They don’t have anything to do with the genocide Israel is now committing (other than a convenient excuse) > [@MrDibble](#): > > Hamas and the non-Hamas Gazans who committed sexual violence in October, and since, are evil scum. But those evil scum don’t have anything to do with why Israel is at war with them. Right. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Unlike you, I don’t use the existence of evil scum to excuse greater evil. There’s nothing evil about the pursuit of justice. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Because I’m not a bootlicker to the first fascist that comes knocking. Says the man making excuses for a literal fascist regime that hasn’t allowed elections since they won one and then killed the people who dared to run against them. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Yep. By a 30-to-one ratio, last I checked. The ongoing sexual abuse of innocent hostages is less evil than Israel. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/233 "2024-03-05T08:12:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > But those evil scum don’t have anything to do with why Israel is at war with them That’s not what _I_ said. Once again, in bigger letters since you’re clearly as hard-of-reading as you are hard-of-thinking: > [@MrDibble](#): > > # the genocide Israel is now committing > [@Smapti](#): > > There’s nothing evil about the pursuit of justice. Sniping grannies and setting up NICU babies to die is only “justice” for absolute evil scum. > [@Smapti](#): > > Says the man making excuses for a literal fascist regime I make no excuses for Hamas. They can all die in a fire for all I care, I wouldn’t piss on them. Hamas is not all Palestinians. > [@Smapti](#): > > The ongoing sexual abuse of innocent hostages is less evil than Israel. Yes. Murder is worse than rape. Mass murder of innocents like babies even more so. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/234 "2024-03-05T08:45:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I make no excuses for Hamas. They can all die in a fire for all I care, I wouldn’t piss on them. You could fool me. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Hamas is not all Palestinians. Just 72% or so of them. [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/) > [@](#): > > Seventy-two percent of respondents said they believed the Hamas decision to launch the cross-border rampage in southern Israel was “correct” given its outcome so far, while 22% said it was “incorrect”. The remainder were undecided or gave no answer. > > Fifty-two percent of Gazans and 85% of West Bank respondents - or 72% of Palestinian respondents overall - voiced satisfaction with the role of Hamas in the war. Hamas is literally more popular among Gazans than Netenyahu is among Israelis. [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/only-15-israelis-want-netanyahu-keep-job-after-gaza-war-poll-finds-2024-01-02/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/only-15-israelis-want-netanyahu-keep-job-after-gaza-war-poll-finds-2024-01-02/) > [@](#): > > In the poll conducted by the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI), 56% of those questioned said continuing the military offensive was the best way to recover the hostages, while 24% thought a swap deal including the release of thousands more Palestinian prisoners from Israel’s jails would be best. > > But a mere 15% want Netanyahu to be prime minister once the war is over, the poll showed. His political rival and present war cabinet partner, centrist Benny Gantz, garnered support from 23% of interviewees. Around 30% named no preferred leader. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/235 "2024-03-05T09:17:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You could fool me. You’re projecting your own bootlicking tendencies, clearly. > [@Smapti](#): > > Just 72% or so of them. Neat trick for 72% to literally _be_ Hamas (which is what _you’re_ literally saying, as opposed to the watered-down poll you posted), when more than 30% of Palestinians are under the age of 10. Also, I suspect the % of adult Gazans who were satisfied with Hamas _might_ have dropped somewhat since December last year… Also, I don’t know what the non-sequitur about Bibi has to do with anything. The % Israelis satisfied with the IOF itself slightly exceeds the % in Gaza satisfied with Hamas, so the only real takeaway here is that both sides (or, at least, the adults who take part in polls) love them some génocidaires. Which we already knew. But the IOF doesn’t just target 52% of adult Gazans, any more than Hamas targeted just 56% of adult Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/236 "2024-03-05T12:22:17Z")
If you read your own cite, the poll was of people both in Gaza and the West Bank. It says that 52% of Gazans supported Hamas, while the other poll you cited has 56% of Israelis supporting Bibi’s actions. So based on your own research, Hamas is literally not as popular in Gaza as Netanyahu is in Israel. Nice job. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/237 "2024-03-05T15:16:35Z")
Numbers can be conflated and massaged when they fit Smapti’s purpose. The UN is not an unbiased observer unless they fit Smapti’s purpose. This is a war until it fits Smapti’s purpose. Smapti’s purpose is “Hamas bad, Israel good,” and everything is filtered through that lens. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/238 "2024-03-05T16:22:08Z")
> [@Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2268): > > > [@Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2268): > > > > Can you just _not_? It’s not in doubt there was rape, because there’s _always_ rape in war. > > It’s a little hard to believe you’re “condemning” something you’re so blase about. Rapes happen all the time in war, big whoop, Israel is worse anyway says the Hamas apologist. The only thing that’s changed is that now you can’t pretend Israel is making it all up when even your oh-so-authoritative UN officials are acknowledging it. The “can you not” was in response to Crane downplaying and questioning allegations of rape committed by the October 7 terrorists. It was dibble saying yes rape very likely was committed by hamas of their friends so “can you not” downplay and question it. Im not convinced this is an honest misread on your part. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/239 "2024-03-05T18:21:50Z")
Kamala Harris supposedly pushes for a cease fire (5 months after the invasion of Gaza started). > **[Harris Pushes for Pause in Fighting in Meeting With Top Israeli Official](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/04/world/middleeast/kamala-harris-gantz-israel-cease-fire.html?unlocked_article_code=1.aU0.bkq4.XaIjWWFfV3fh&smid=url-share)** > > In a White House meeting on Monday afternoon with Benny Gantz, a member of Israel’s war cabinet, the vice president also focused on the need for a deal to free hostages. On the one hand, better late than never. On the other hand, in my opinion she’s being deployed to try and whitewash the US’s support and enablement (military, economic and political) of Israel’s genocide against the Palestinians, which is ongoing. The US stopped funding UNRWA (the UN agency to aid Palestinian refugees) because 12 of its members were found to support Hamas. So did Harris say anything about refunding UNRWA? Nope. The US just airdropped 36K ready-to-eat meals. Does this make up for their support of genocide? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/240 "2024-03-05T18:25:06Z")
Eh, she’s also meeting with Gantz behind Bibi’s back. From a realpolitik perspective, it seems like a pretty big shot across Netanyahu’s bow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=13)