# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 129
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2561 "2025-05-22T22:05:49Z")
Yeah, Luigi Mangione did not invent terrorism in the name of a political cause. It’s so common, in fact, that I doubt any one particular incident of it can be directly attributed to the inspiration of any other particular incident of it. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2562 "2025-05-22T22:08:38Z")
It’s what Malcolm X called “chickens coming home to roost.” ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2563 "2025-05-23T01:59:52Z")
Did he say that before or after he was murdered by one of his own followers? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2564 "2025-05-23T02:08:20Z")
Well, you sure got that wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2565 "2025-05-23T02:17:17Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Well, you sure got that wrong Before or after he edited his post? Because I don’t see anything incorrect about it now. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2566 "2025-05-23T02:17:52Z")
Then you’re both ignorant. Bug off and keep Malcolm’s name out of your stupid mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2567 "2025-05-23T02:31:37Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Then you’re both ignorant. (Citation needed) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2568 "2025-05-23T02:32:57Z")
You insist, OK. Read this and learn something: > **[Assassination of Malcolm X](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Malcolm_X)** > > Malcolm X, an African American Muslim minister and human rights activist who was a popular figure during the civil rights movement, was shot multiple times and died from his wounds in Manhattan, New York City, on February 21, 1965, at the age of 39 while preparing to address the Organization of Afro-American Unity at the Audubon Ballroom in the neighborhood of Washington Heights. Three members of the Nation of Islam—Muhammad Abdul Aziz, Khalil Islam, and Thomas Hagan—were charged, tried, and co... ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2569 "2025-05-23T02:48:00Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > You insist, OK. Read this and learn something I know that three is a difficult number for someone as stupid as yourself to count up to, but two is, in fact, less then three: > [@](#): > > Three members of the Nation of Islam—Muhammad Abdul Aziz, Khalil Islam, and Thomas Hagan—were charged, tried, and convicted of the murder and given indeterminate life sentences, but in November 2021, Aziz and Islam were exonerated. Or do you think Thomas Hagan didn’t do it and the FBI set him up after they murdered Malcolm X and MLK (and maybe Kennedy too while they were at it)? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2570 "2025-05-23T03:14:43Z")
Hagan did it, of course. He confessed. When it comes to the other assassins, details get awfully murky. Basically, Farrakhan was behind it. He even openly admitted it. Hagan accused other members of the NOI. Your attempt at sarcasm about MLK and Kennedy is misplaced. So the assassins were three, not one. They were followers of Farrakhan in the NOI, not followers of Malcolm. I won’t let you get away with spreading falsehoods about the subject. Not even lying. If you were a liar you’d know that you spoke what is not true. Being intellectually lazy, you don’t even bother to find out if what you say is true or not. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2571 "2025-05-23T03:31:00Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > They were followers of Farrakhan in the NOI, not followers of Malcolm. 🤦‍♂️ At the time that they killed him, that’s true. _Before_ he dared to criticize the movement, though, that’s a different story. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2572 "2025-05-23T03:40:19Z")
Now you’re gonna tell me that he meant something different from what he said? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2573 "2025-05-23T04:41:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > _Before_ he dared to criticize the movement, though, that’s a different story. I’m pretty sure it was not. The issue revolves around the phrase ‘followers of Malcolm X’. Thomas Hagan cannot be described (as far as I can tell) as a follower of Malcolm X per se. They were both, at one time, followers of Elijah Muhammed. In other words they were fellow travelers on the same path, not master and disciple. Then Malcolm X split from and called out Elijah Muhammad and Hagan, ordered or not (he denies it), became outraged and worked with others to assassinate him. But it wasn’t the anger of a former disciple against a strayed mentor, but rather the anger of a former brother-in-arms against a perceived apostate/heretic. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2574 "2025-05-23T11:16:21Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Then you’re both ignorant. Bug off and keep Malcolm’s name out of your stupid mouth. Pretty rich coming from someone who thinks it’s ok to murder two Jews in Washington. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2575 "2025-05-23T11:29:07Z")
Blow it out your ass, dickbrain. I don’t think it’s OK to murder anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2576 "2025-05-23T11:36:56Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I don’t think it’s OK to murder anybody. No, you just think it’s “the chickens coming home to roost”. Imagine if, at the beginning of this conflict, when this conflict began and that Palestinian kid got murdered by a random Christian asshole here in the States - was it his landlord or something? - imagine if in response to that, a poster named Annahoj said, “Chickens came home to roost!”. I think we could _all_ agree that Annahoj would be a racist fuckface in that scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2577 "2025-05-23T11:41:04Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > They were both, at one time, followers of Elijah Muhammed. In other words they were fellow travelers on the same path, not master and disciple. Since Malcolm X was a leader within the movement, I think it’s a distinction without a difference. If you want to say that Malcolm X wasn’t the absolute top of the hierarchy at any time and therefore has no “followers”, you can, but that seems strange. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2578 "2025-05-23T11:45:18Z")
I deplore _all_ violence. Including the massive amount of violence being done to Gazan people by the criminal regime, which you keep making excuses for. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2579 "2025-05-23T11:47:56Z")
It’s “chickens coming home to roost” if someone kills Netanyahu, or Smotrich, or someone who actually bears some responsibility for Israeli-led atrocities. Not random civilians. Any more than atrocities against Gazan civilians are “chickens coming home to roost” in response for Hamas attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2580 "2025-05-23T11:50:07Z")
The victims were employees of the criminal regime, not innocent children. A very lopsided comparison. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=128) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=130)