# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 136
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2701 "2026-04-27T01:11:13Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And fucking _Al Jazeera_ is? …I haven’t cited Al Jazeera here. > [@Babale](#): > > Because even though they’re (((Israeli))), there’s nothing wrong with Honest Reporting. There is plenty wrong with Honest Reporting. > [@Babale](#): > > That’s _rich_, coming from _you_. We both know that the CPJ is not a neutral source either We both _don’t_ know that. What the fuck are you talking about? > [@Babale](#): > > But I like how the only evidence you think you need to give that they are _a literal cesspool of lies and propaganda_ is a Wikipedia quote outing them as… Gasp… (((Israeli!))) No, it’s the fact that the snippet you posted accused two journalists of allegedly serving with Hamas but provided zero evidence of this at all. The fact that they state they are literally an advocacy group for one of the parties in this conflict just adds more context. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2702 "2026-04-27T01:11:27Z")
Verifiable evidence means that it can be verified independently. That we don’t have to just rely on the IDF’s word of honor. They haven’t provided anything remotely verifiable. So yes, we’re skeptical, as should you be. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2703 "2026-04-27T01:11:54Z")
Just to set the record straight, since slimy shit liars are everywhere in this thread, here’s what my stance on this issue _actually_ was, outside the delusional mind of Andy: > [@Fuck all you warmongering pieces of shit](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/1363): > > How do you _think_ I feel about them? They should be in jail I’m sure it won’t stop him from continuing to lie about my stance, because he just can’t help himself; no tactic is too low in his new cause. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2704 "2026-04-27T01:12:40Z")
Kudos for finding yet another way to ignore/excuse/justify rape! You are truly reaching Trumpian skill in deflecting and dissembling about rape. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2705 "2026-04-27T01:14:58Z")
I’m just applying your own standards. Anything the Israeli government says cannot be trusted. The source of the claim that this rape occurred is the Israeli government. Therefore, the claim that the rape occurred cannot be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2706 "2026-04-27T01:15:22Z")
Did I misread you here? [https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/1922?u=iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/1922) You implied that it was proven there was no rape (unless I misread you). Are you agreeing or disagreeing with @Smapti, who says that Israel is correct to drop the prosecution of the rapists (and now seems to say that the rape didn’t happen)? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2707 "2026-04-27T01:16:24Z")
Why use my standards, when yours are more than enough to justify this rape because of your (uncited) claims about the laws of war? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2708 "2026-04-27T01:17:21Z")
The fact that lying scimbags like Andy don’t need any actually wrongdoing or evidence of wrongdoing to condemn (((Zionists))) has little to do with whether any particular claim of wrongdoing is true or not. Obviously Israel isn’t perfect, and sometimes Israelis do bad things, so if you’re the sort of person who froths at the mouth at the sight of a (((Zionist))) you’ll still have broken clock situations. Doesn’t make you any less of a shit person. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2709 "2026-04-27T01:18:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why use my standards Well, if I shouldn’t use your standards, then why on Earth are YOU using them? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2710 "2026-04-27T01:19:46Z")
Attacking the messenger is probably easier on your psyche than discussing the IDF’s failure to prosecute gang rape. I sympathize. Justifying and excusing killing so many thousands of civilians, in Gaza and now Iran, must take a terrible toll on one’s mental health. And now gang rape! Best wishes to you, Babs. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2711 "2026-04-27T01:20:50Z")
My standards are that gang rape should be prosecuted, even if the victim was a terrorist. Your standards appear to differ. But back to the laws of war - you claim they allow rape of prisoners in some circumstances. Can you provide a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2712 "2026-04-27T01:26:59Z")
…just a reminder that, the incident under discussion here is literally the tip of the iceberg. Israel is running a network of torture camps. Cite: [https://www.btselem.org/publications/202408\_welcome\_to\_hell](https://www.btselem.org/publications/202408_welcome_to_hell) > **[Israeli prisons and detention camps designed to torture Palestinian detainees...](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israeli-prisons-and-detention-camps-designed-torture-palestinian-detainees)** > > News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Protection and Human Rights; published on 11 Jan 2025 by Euro-Med Monitor > **[‘Cruellest forms of torture’: freed Palestinians describe horrors of Israeli...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/14/freed-palestinians-describe-horrors-of-israeli-jail)** > > Men who were held in Nafha prison say they were brutally beaten, bound at the hands and feet, verbally abused, allowed to contract fungal and skin diseases, and assaulted with loud music for up to two days straight [https://www.btselem.org/publications/202601\_living\_hell](https://www.btselem.org/publications/202601_living_hell) [https://www.bmj.com/content/392/bmj.s171](https://www.bmj.com/content/392/bmj.s171) [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/08/israels-escalating-use-torture-against-palestinians-custody-preventable](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/08/israels-escalating-use-torture-against-palestinians-custody-preventable) > **[Israeli doctors reveal their conflicted stories of treating Palestinian...](https://theconversation.com/israeli-doctors-reveal-their-conflicted-stories-of-treating-palestinian-prisoners-held-in-notorious-black-site-sde-teiman-264091)** > > Israeli medical staff who treated Palestinian captives in the wake of the October 7 attacks say they are haunted by their experiences. Again: like with the journalists, the evidence is more than just overwhelming. It’s been documented for decades. Every single Palestinian has a story. Those stories have been backed up by whistleblowers. There is nothing to debate here. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2713 "2026-04-27T01:27:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > My standards are that gang rape should be prosecuted, even if the victim was a terrorist. And that anything the Israeli government says can’t be trusted, which, since the alleged victim has fled the country, means we have no way of knowing whether a rape ever occurred. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But back to the laws of war - you claim they allow rape of prisoners in some circumstances. I said the laws of war don’t protect unlawful combatants. > **[Unlawful combatant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant)** > > Unlawful combatants (also known as unprivileged combatants or unprivileged belligerents) are civilians who directly engage in armed conflict and are therefore legally deemed to be no longer protected by the Geneva Conventions. The concept originated during the fin de siècle of the 19th century, with the great powers considering francs-tireurs to be unlawful combatants. During the 20th and 21st centuries, the concept of unlawful combatants has been prominently used by the United States, particu... ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2714 "2026-04-27T01:36:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I said the laws of war don’t protect unlawful combatants. Obviously; your meaning wasn’t in any way ambiguous. Andy used to be an intelligent and good faith poster, and it’s pretty gross that he would intentionally resort to flat out lying about your position like that for cheap rhetorical points. No tactic is too low. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2715 "2026-04-27T02:14:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I said the laws of war don’t protect unlawful combatants. From being raped? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2716 "2026-04-27T02:18:18Z")
From _summary execution_. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2717 "2026-04-27T02:19:19Z")
That wasn’t the question that was asked. > [@I pit over-the-top Anti-Trump hysteria](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/1962): > > But back to the laws of war - you claim they allow rape of prisoners in some circumstances. Can you provide a cite for that? > > > [@I pit over-the-top Anti-Trump hysteria](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/1962): > > > > I said the laws of war don’t protect unlawful combatants. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2718 "2026-04-27T02:23:56Z")
The question is based on a false premise. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2719 "2026-04-27T02:26:49Z")
I don’t think it’s possible to read that as anything other than a general question about whether the “Laws of War” allow for the rape of noncombatants. Nice hole you’ve dug yourself into! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2720 "2026-04-27T02:49:15Z")
Smapti have you ever seen [_Casualties of War_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_War)? Did you get that Michael J. Fox isn’t the villain and Sean Penn and the rest of the platoon are not the heros of the movie? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=135) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=137)