# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 140
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2781 "2026-04-27T17:41:13Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I would say the same, but I understand perfectly well the game you’re playing here. …but I’m not playing a game. You get that conditions on the ground were extraordinarily bad and that information was difficult, sometimes impossible, to gather in any way except imperfectly. > [@Babale](#): > > This wasn’t “imperfect information”, this was them saying that conditions on the ground were such that over the next few months hundreds of people would starve to death on a daily basis, and that simply didn’t happen; 400 people died of malnutrition_in total_. Have you even looked at the initial IPC report? They don’t claim “hundreds of people would starve to death on a daily basis”. You are extrapolating from an informational fact-sheet written for the layman. I’m reading the actual report. > [@Babale](#): > > Superhuman prevention efforts might explain why the deaths were _half_ of what was predicted Yet another lie. They _never predicted a number of deaths_. > [@Babale](#): > > Really? How can it be that hundreds of thousands of people were in Stage 4 and 5 famine, which by definition would mean that hundreds died each day, when only 450 people died of malnutrition in total? How do you reconcile these two incompatible facts? I asked for a cite for what the IPC said post the ending of the total siege. I’m still waiting. Because again: they never predicted hundreds of people would die every day. > And if I knew the conflict entirely through bullshit online propaganda, instead of being friends and family with many IDF members, I might actually be mind numbingly ignorant enough to _believe_ that nonsense when you spewed it. Ammnesty International. > **[Amnesty International concludes Israel is committing genocide against...](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/)** > > Amnesty International’s research has found sufficient basis to conclude that Israel has committed and is continuing to commit genocide against Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip. Human Rights Watch > **[Extermination and Acts of Genocide](https://www.hrw.org/report/2024/12/19/extermination-and-acts-genocide/israel-deliberately-depriving-palestinians-gaza)** > > In the 179-page report, “Extermination and Acts of Genocide: Israel Deliberately Depriving Palestinians in Gaza of Water,” Human Rights Watch found that Israeli authorities have intentionally deprived Palestinians in Gaza of access to safe water for... The Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention > **[Statement on Why We Call the Israeli Attack on Gaza Genocide](https://www.lemkininstitute.com/statements-new-page/statement-on-why-we-call-the-israeli-attack-on-gaza-genocide)** > > December 29, 2023 > > The Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention, increasingly concerned about the deteriorating > humanitarian situation in the territory of the State of Palestine (including Gaza and the West > Bank), which has already resulted in the... Jewish Voices for Peace > **[Why Israel’s war on Gaza is textbook genocide. - JVP](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2024/01/11/israels-war-textbook-genocide/)** > > Israel is committing genocide — and Israel’s prosecution under international law matters for our movement. B’Tselem and PHRI > **[For first time, two leading Israeli human rights groups accuse Israel of...](https://web.archive.org/web/20250728161018/https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/28/middleeast/israeli-human-rights-group-accuses-israel-genocide-gaza-intl)** > > A pair of leading Israeli human rights groups has accused Israel of “committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza,” becoming the first such organizations to make the claim. The UN Special Committee: > **[A genocide is unfolding before our eyes: History will not forgive our...](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/un-special-committee-press-release-19nov24/)** > >   19 November 2024 Item 50: Human Rights of the Palestinian People and Other Arabs of the Occupied Territories Delivered by Chair of the Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices Affecting the Human Rights of the Palestinian People and Other... The UN Commission of Inquiry > **[Commission of Inquiry: Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces have...](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/commission-of-inquiry-report-genocide-in-gaza-a-hrc-60-crp-3/)** > >   16 September 2025 A/HRC/60/CRP.3 Human Rights Council Sixtieth session  Legal analysis of the conduct of Israel in Gaza pursuant to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide  Conference room paper of the Independent... Refugee International > **[Refugees International Statement on Genocide in Gaza - Refugees International](https://www.refugeesinternational.org/statements-and-news/refugees-international-statement-on-genocide-in-gaza/)** > > We call on all countries of the world to deploy maximum diplomatic and political leverage to force an end to the genocide in Gaza. Omer Bartov > **[As a former IDF soldier and historian of genocide, I was deeply disturbed by...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel-gaza-historian-omer-bartov)** > > The long read: This summer, one of my lectures was protested by far-right students. Their rhetoric brought to mind some of the darkest moments of 20th-century history – and overlapped with mainstream Israeli views to a shocking degree _ **As a former IDF soldier and historian of genocide, I was deeply disturbed by my recent visit to Israel** _ … _By the time I travelled to Israel, I had become convinced that at least since the attack by the IDF on Rafah on 6 May 2024, it was no longer possible to deny that Israel was engaged in systematic war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocidal actions. It was not just that this attack against the last concentration of Gazans – most of them displaced already several times by the IDF, which now once again pushed them to a so-called safe zone – demonstrated a total disregard of any humanitarian standards. It also clearly indicated that the ultimate goal of this entire undertaking from the very beginning had been to make the entire Gaza Strip uninhabitable, and to debilitate its population to such a degree that it would either die out or seek all possible options to flee the territory. In other words, the rhetoric spouted by Israeli leaders since 7 October was now being translated into reality – namely, as the 1948 UN Genocide Convention puts it, that Israel was acting “with intent to destroy, in whole or in part”, the Palestinian population in Gaza, “as such, by killing, causing serious harm, or inflicting conditions of life meant to bring about the group’s destruction”._ I’m entirely comfortable with my characterisation of the IDF. I think it’s backed up by a substantial body of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2782 "2026-04-27T17:55:54Z")
> [@I pit over-the-top Anti-Trump hysteria](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/2041): > > > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > > Are former IDF fighters in artillery companies that served seven years ago terrorists? > > The IDF is not Hamas. IDF fighters currently in an artillery company are not terrorists. So, you are saying that anyone who ever was on a spreadsheet produced by Hamas, listed as a Hamas soldier, is a valid military target for the rest of their life? That’s a pretty shitty argument. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2783 "2026-04-27T18:04:33Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Have you even looked at the initial IPC report? They don’t claim “hundreds of people would starve to death on a daily basis”. That’s what stage 5 famine classification _means_: 2 or more daily deaths per 10,000 people. And stage 4 means between 1 and 1.99 dead per 10,000. Are you claiming that the IPC _changed their own definition of famine just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza?_ Why would they do such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2784 "2026-04-27T18:19:08Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Are you claiming that the IPC _changed their own definition of famine just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza?_ …no. From the IPC: > [@IPC](#): > > The IPC did not change its standards for the analysis on Gaza or elsewhere, and it has not lowered the malnutrition threshold for famine classification. The IPC Technical Manual—Version 3.0, released in 2019, > and IPC Technical Manual version 3.1 released in 2021—describes two ways to determine whether acute malnutrition has reached famine levels, depending on the data available: > • Weight-for-Height Z-score (WHZ): At least 30% of children aged 6–59 months have a WHZ below -2 standard deviations or oedema. > • Mid-Upper Arm Circumference (MUAC): At least 15% of children aged 6–59 months have a MUAC below 125 mm or oedema and evidence shows a rapid deterioration of underlying drivers of acute > malnutrition. > > The key principle is the convergence of evidence: famine is not classified based on MUAC alone, but when food deprivation, malnutrition, and mortality all indicate catastrophic conditions. > > MUAC is widely used in emergency contexts, as it is the most frequently available measurement and is strongly correlated with mortality outcomes. For this reason, MUAC has been applied in previous IPC famine classifications, including the South Sudan IPC report (November 2020) and the Sudan IPC report (December 2024). The same protocols have been consistently applied in all IPC analyses for Gaza. > In Gaza, Global Acute Malnutrition (GAM) by MUAC has been collected routinely since January 2024, while WHZ data could not be gathered. > > Attempts to conduct comprehensive SMART (Standardized Monitoring > and Assessment of Relief and Transitions) surveys to collect children’s weight and height measurements have repeatedly failed due to escalating conflict. These surveys require a prolonged presence of teams on the ground, which has been deemed too high-risk under current conditions. > [@](#): > > When analysing the entire month of July as a single period, the weighted average of the prevalence of GAM by MUAC stood at 12.5%. However, calculating a monthly weighted average can mask rapid changes in > acute malnutrition, which may lead to underestimating the severity of the crisis. Segmenting the data into half-month intervals allowed for a more refined trend analysis as well as more precise estimates of the most > recent GAM prevalence. > [@](#): > > How did the IPC find that the mortality threshold—which requires a crude death rate of 2 deaths per 10,000 people per day—had been crossed in Gaza Governorate when only an average of six starvation-related deaths per day were being reported? > > _Overview: Due to the breakdown of monitoring systems, recorded famine-related deaths likely represent only a fraction of the actual deaths. Nonetheless, reported figures indicate a recent sharp increase. Combined with the exponential rise in acute malnutrition and extreme levels of food insecurity, this supported the assessment that the mortality threshold in Gaza Gov_ > > As described in the IPC Technical Manual version 3.1, protocols for IPC classification define mortality as deaths attributable to outright starvation or to the interaction of malnutrition and disease. In Gaza, many deaths— > particularly non-traumatic fatalities—remain undocumented due to the breakdown of monitoring systems. > > As a result, reported figures almost certainly underestimate the actual mortality on the ground. Additionally, deaths resulting from disease among malnourished individuals—who would likely have survived had they not been malnourished—are commonly not recorded as deaths due to malnutrition. However, according to IPC criteria, these cases are considered attributable to malnutrition and should be included in the count of famine-related deaths. > … > In other words, nearly all (5 of the 6) available food security outcome indicators—from Source 1 and 2 combined—consistently showed extreme food consumption gaps for over 20% of the population in Gaza > Governorate, thereby surpassing the famine thresholds for food consumption. Only one indicator from Source 2 diverged from this pattern. > [@](#): > > The IPC methodology requires analysts to project conditions several months ahead, based on how the drivers of food insecurity and malnutrition are likely to evolve and past trends. For example, if food has not been available in the past, then the same trend may be assumed in the projection, unless there is strong evidence to the contrary. > > In Gaza, IPC projection analyses have often been followed by increases in humanitarian assistance, which in turn have shifted trends and led to outcomes that diverge from initial projections. Notably, partial and > temporary relaxations of access restrictions have often followed the publication of IPC findings, only to be reinstated at a later stage. For instance, since late 2024, aid deliveries have regularly surged and subsequently declined following IPC alerts and analyses (IPC Alert, November 2024; IPC analysis, April 2025; IPC Alert, July > 2025), illustrating a recurring pattern. More at the link. [https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user\_upload/ipcinfo/docs/Response\_to\_Issues\_Raised\_Following\_IPC\_Famine\_Classification\_in\_the\_Gaza\_Strip.pdf](https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/Response_to_Issues_Raised_Following_IPC_Famine_Classification_in_the_Gaza_Strip.pdf) But the TLDR version is that the situation is vastly more complex than what you, a non-expert in this subject who is relying on a factsheet for beginners, make it out to be. That the very same criteria used for Gaza was ALSO used in Sudan and South Sudan. That they didn’t “change their definition just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza.” That’s conspiratorial levels of thinking. It’s okay to admit you aren’t an expert in this subject. I’m not an expert either. There are times we should defer to the experts, and this is one of those times. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2785 "2026-04-27T18:22:24Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But the TLDR version is that the situation is vastly more complex than what you, a non-expert in this subject who is relying on a factsheet for beginners, make it out to be. That the very same criteria used for Gaza was ALSO used in Sudan and South Sudan. That they didn’t “change their definition just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza.” That’s conspiratorial levels of thinking. Great example, you fucking cretin. In Sudan, in a place like Zamzam Camp, 1.1-3.6 people per 10,000 died each day of starvation for extended periods of time. That’s why it makes sense to call what happened there a stage 4-5 famine. _ **Nothing like that has happened in Gaza** _. That’s why it is both dishonest and disingenuous to call both stage 5 famines. You know this, and yet you continue to pretend otherwise. Why? I mean, the answer is very obvious, but go ahead and make up some bullshit excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2786 "2026-04-27T18:33:21Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Great example, you fucking cretin. In Sudan, in a place like Zamzam Camp, 1.1-3.6 people per 10,000 died each day of starvation for extended periods of time. That’s why it makes sense to call what happened there a stage 4-5 famine. …I love it that you have your talking points lined up all ready to go. But this isn’t relevant because the IPC outline the criteria in the PDF I cited, and that criteria is the same as they applied to other famines. The fact that you’ve cherry-picked a single stat doesn’t change that. The the IPC didn’t change their own definition of famine just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza. That didn’t happen. > [@Babale](#): > > _ **Nothing like that has happened in Gaza** _. If you were an expert in the subject, I’d probably think this was somehow relevant. But you are just a random guy on the internet making wild conspiracy theories. So this isn’t relevant at all. > [@Babale](#): > > That’s why it is both dishonest and disingenuous to call both stage 5 famines. You know this, and yet you continue to pretend otherwise. Why? They were both stage 5 famines because: _• Weight-for-Height Z-score (WHZ): At least 30% of children aged 6–59 months have a WHZ below -2 standard deviations or oedema._ _• Mid-Upper Arm Circumference (MUAC): At least 15% of children aged 6–59 months have a MUAC below 125 mm or oedema and evidence shows a rapid deterioration of underlying drivers of acute_ _malnutrition._ These criteria were met. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2787 "2026-04-27T18:45:24Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > They were both stage 5 famines because: > > _• Weight-for-Height Z-score (WHZ): At least 30% of children aged 6–59 months have a WHZ below -2 standard deviations or oedema._ > _• Mid-Upper Arm Circumference (MUAC): At least 15% of children aged 6–59 months have a MUAC below 125 mm or oedema and evidence shows a rapid deterioration of underlying drivers of acute_ _malnutrition._ > > These criteria were met. A minute ago you told me that the fact that there are thousands of missing deaths in their estimate is explained by the fact that it’s hard to get information out of Gaza because Israel, monstrous demons that they are, won’t let doctors get accurate stats. But then a moment later, you’re telling me that they have super accurate statistics about the arm circumference and height of a representative sample of people in Gaza. You are, of course, enormously full of shit. The fact that you think it is appropriate to describe a situation where at various points between 1.1-3.6 people starved to death every single day to a situation where a grand total of 450 people died over 567 days is very telling. I know that you don’t actually think the two situations should be categorized at the same severity of famine; if you were that stupid, you couldn’t figure out how to log onto this site. So clearly, you’re taking a position you know is full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2788 "2026-04-27T18:58:17Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > A minute ago you told me that the fact that there are thousands of missing deaths in their estimate is explained by the fact that it’s hard to get information out of Gaza because Israel …this is a lie. The IPC never made any predictions about the numbers of deaths. > [@Babale](#): > > But then a moment later, you’re telling me that they have super accurate statistics about the arm circumference and height of a representative sample of people in Gaza. I mean…you can literally read the report. They literally talk about the “breakdown in monitoring systems.” That the Mid-Upper Arm Circumference is “widely used in emergency contexts”. It’s all right there. You are looking for contradictions. But there aren’t any reasons why both of these things can’t be true. > [@Babale](#): > > You are, of course, enormously full of shit. I’m not an expert in these things. And neither are you. But I’m citing the experts. If you think I’m misinterpreting what they have said, feel free to point that out. I’m open to being corrected on the specific details and the facts. But that isn’t what you are doing. > [@Babale](#): > > he fact that you think it is appropriate to describe a situation where at various points between 1.1-3.6 people starved to death every single day to a situation where a grand total of 450 people died over 567 days is very telling. I’m quoting what the IPC said. You claimed that “the IPC didn’t change their own definition of famine just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza.” The IPC says that isn’t true. They applied the very same criteria to other famines, including in Sudan. That you think this “isn’t appropriate” doesn’t matter. > [@Babale](#): > > I know that you don’t actually think the two situations should be categorized at the same severity of famine; if you were that stupid, you couldn’t figure out how to log onto this site. So clearly, you’re taking a position you know is full of shit. I think the IPC set the criteria. I don’t know why you think you know better than the IPC: but all I’m doing is quoting directly what they have said. You’re the one claiming that “the IPC changed their own definition of famine just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza”. That’s an extraordinary claim. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2789 "2026-04-27T18:59:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you think they should be in jail – great. Why aren’t they? What does Israel’s failure to prosecute say about the Israeli justice system? What does that have to do with who’s in the right in this war? Absolutely nothing. Does Israel deserve to be conquered and its people murdered or exiled because of an unprosecuted rape? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2790 "2026-04-27T19:09:38Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I’m quoting what the IPC said. You claimed that “the IPC didn’t change their own definition of famine just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza.” The IPC says that isn’t true. They applied the very same criteria to other famines, including in Sudan. 🤣 Do you realize how fucking stupid you sound? “We know that the IPC didn’t lie because they said they didn’t lie” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2791 "2026-04-27T19:11:51Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …this is a lie. The IPC never made any predictions about the numbers of deaths. Fuck you, you lying piece of shit: [https://www.ipcinfo.org/famine-facts/](https://www.ipcinfo.org/famine-facts/) > [@](#): > > Famine > is an IPC classification at the area level. The IPC defines Famine as a situation in which at least one in five (or 20 percent of the) households have an extreme lack of food and face starvation and destitution, resulting in extremely critical levels of acute malnutrition and death. In this phase, prevalence of acute malnutrition in children under five reaches or exceeds 30 percent, households destitute, _**and death, measured in the form of excess mortality is prevalent (at least 2 deaths per 10,000 people/day).**_ Emphasis mine. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2792 "2026-04-27T19:12:15Z")
> [@I pit over-the-top Anti-Trump hysteria](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/2057): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > So you think they should be in jail – great. Why aren’t they? What does Israel’s failure to prosecute say about the Israeli justice system? > > What does that have to do with who’s in the right in this war? Absolutely nothing. Does Israel deserve to be conquered and its people murdered or exiled because of an unprosecuted rape? I’d be happy to answer this straw man if you answer my question first. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2793 "2026-04-27T19:14:35Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > “We know that the IPC didn’t lie because they said they didn’t lie” …do you know how stupid you sound? “I’m accusing the IPC’s Famine Review Committee of changing their own definition of famine just to accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza based on a misunderstanding of what the actual criteria is they use in order to determine famine because EVERYTHING IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY and because I don’t understand how anything works.” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2794 "2026-04-27T19:15:28Z")
Liar liar, pants on fire: > [@Babale](#): > > Fuck you, you lying piece of shit: > > [https://www.ipcinfo.org/famine-facts/](https://www.ipcinfo.org/famine-facts/) > > > [@](#): > > > > Famine > > is an IPC classification at the area level. The IPC defines Famine as a situation in which at least one in five (or 20 percent of the) households have an extreme lack of food and face starvation and destitution, resulting in extremely critical levels of acute malnutrition and death. In this phase, prevalence of acute malnutrition in children under five reaches or exceeds 30 percent, households destitute, _**and death, measured in the form of excess mortality is prevalent (at least 2 deaths per 10,000 people/day).**_ > > Emphasis mine. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2795 "2026-04-27T19:26:19Z")
I’ve given you my answer. I don’t care what it says about the Israeli justice system and you’ve given me no reason why I should. Israel’s justice system is for Israelis to care about. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2796 "2026-04-27T19:30:03Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Liar liar, pants on fire: …as I said, this is a factsheet for laymen. The criteria and protocols they used in Gaza was the same they used in Sudan and the South Sudan. The full criteria that you should be citing is here: [https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user\_upload/ipcinfo/docs/IPC\_Technical\_Manual\_3\_Final.pdf](https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/IPC_Technical_Manual_3_Final.pdf) The context you are missing: _“For a projection of famine, the current situation can still be below famine thresholds, but through a critical analysis, it is concluded that the condition will pass the famine cut-offs in the projection period.”_ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2797 "2026-04-27T19:46:13Z")
I don’t think I can explain empathy and decency and morality to you. I care about the Israeli justice system because Israelis are humans, as are others that can be impacted by it. Humans deserve a decent and fair justice system, IMO. Your mileage obviously varies. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2798 "2026-04-27T19:53:50Z")
And yet you’re trying to weaken that system by supporting people who want Israel to be destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2799 "2026-04-27T20:00:35Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The context you are missing: > > _“For a projection of famine, the current situation can still be below famine thresholds, but through a critical analysis, it is concluded that the condition will pass the famine cut-offs in the projection period.”_ How is that context I was missing? My question is why their prediction was _ **two orders of magnitude off** _. The only conclusion I can draw is GIGO: politically motivated garbage in, politically motivated garbage out. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2026, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/2800 "2026-04-27T20:15:37Z")
> [@I pit over-the-top Anti-Trump hysteria](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/2069): > > The only conclusion I can draw is GIGO: politically motivated garbage in, politically motivated garbage out. …I think that’s a stupid conclusion based on zero evidence. From the other document I cited before: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The IPC methodology requires analysts to project conditions several months ahead, based on how the drivers of food insecurity and malnutrition are likely to evolve and past trends. For example, if food has not been available in the past, then the same trend may be assumed in the projection, unless there is strong evidence to the contrary. > > In Gaza, IPC projection analyses have often been followed by increases in humanitarian assistance, which in turn have shifted trends and led to outcomes that diverge from initial projections. Notably, partial and > temporary relaxations of access restrictions have often followed the publication of IPC findings, only to be reinstated at a later stage. For instance, since late 2024, aid deliveries have regularly surged and subsequently declined following IPC alerts and analyses (IPC Alert, November 2024; IPC analysis, April 2025; IPC Alert, July > 2025), illustrating a recurring pattern. You’ve done this before. You don’t understand the linear nature of time. Sometimes an organisation will make a projection, then things change on the ground which changes the overall outcome. That’s just how things work. You are making extraordinary claims that this was “politically motivated” just to “accuse Israel of causing one in Gaza”. But you have provided zero evidence of this. Not one single bit of evidence at all. We can consider this lie _debunked_. Comprehensively and conclusively. Let’s move on to the murder of the fifteen paramedics on the 23rd of March, 2025. Do you condemn these killings? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=139) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=141)