# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/341 "2024-04-04T16:48:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I tried to find some common ground with your lot, but apparently nothing short of demanding that the Jews link hands and march into the Mediterranean is sufficient to satisfy you. So I’m done trying. “They’re killing tens of thousands of Palestinian children!” You: Tough shit, bombs happen. War crimes aren’t even a real thing, so it doesn’t matter. “They killed seven white people!” You: Israel has crossed a line! And you wonder why people think you’re a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/342 "2024-04-04T17:24:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you say, and yet I’ve read, in this thread and others, that Israel is fascist, genocidcal, apartheid, criminal, theocratic, deliberately targets civilians, snipes 5-year-olds, faked atroticites against its own people, killed its own citizens to instigate this war, is not a democracy, ignores the will of its people, and is comparable to Nazi Germany. I think it’s fair to say that the _current government_ of Israel is fascist, ignores the will of its people and wants to replace democracy with theocracy. It would be unfair to say that they have, as of yet, succeeded in doing so. “Criminal” isn’t in doubt, as Israel has routinely violated international law, and its PM is also personally a crook. As far as “genocide” and “apartheid”, I personally wouldn’t use those words, but they’re not so far off that I would correct someone else for doing so. At a certain point, which Israel has long since passed in Gaza, there is no meaningful distinction between “deliberately targeting civilians” and “acting with reckless indifference to the lives of civilians”. It is not official IDF policy to target 5-year-olds with sniper fire, but there appear to be no consequences imposed on soldiers who choose to do so. But what I’m really curious about is whether there were actually posters on this board who claimed that the atrocities of October 7 were faked by Israel to justify the invasion. (Meaning that they claim that no murders or atrocities occurred at all, not just that they dispute the details of some particular assertion) Do you have a cite for that so I can put them on ignore? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/343 "2024-04-04T18:43:18Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > But what I’m really curious about is whether there were actually posters on this board who claimed that the atrocities of October 7 were faked by Israel to justify the invasion. (Meaning that they claim that no murders or atrocities occurred at all, not just that they dispute the details of some particular assertion) Do you have a cite for that so I can put them on ignore? Heck I’d even settle for a cite of someone on this board not agreeing with the assertion that what Hamas did was an atrocity, and that they should be condemned for it. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/344 "2024-04-04T19:00:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “They’re killing tens of thousands of Palestinian children!” > You: Tough shit, bombs happen. War crimes aren’t even a real thing, so it doesn’t matter. > > “They killed seven white people!” > You: Israel has crossed a line! > > And you wonder why people think you’re a racist. Hate to defend Smapti but the difference there is that with the latest bombing, it’s more obvious Israel is deliberately terrorizing aid workers whereas it was at least possible before to think that all the Palestinians killed were an extreme amount of collateral damage. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/345 "2024-04-04T19:46:40Z")
Sniping is never collateral damage. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/346 "2024-04-04T20:19:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They’re killing tens of thousands of Palestinian children!” > You: Tough shit, bombs happen. War crimes aren’t even a real thing, so it doesn’t matter. > > “They killed seven white people!” > You: Israel has crossed a line! > > And you wonder why people think you’re a racist. “Look at these people they killed! This is outrageous!” “You’re right. This is outrageous.” “Oh, so now that they’re killing THESE people you’re outraged? Racist!” That’s what I’m hearing. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/347 "2024-04-04T20:26:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s what I’m hearing. Yeah, that’s basically the same conversation I just posted, except you left out the bit at the beginning where you were being a fucking sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/348 "2024-04-04T20:59:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Right. So acknowledging that Netenyahu has gone too far isn’t good enough, then? Not ideologically pure enough for the Israel-Is-The-Great-Satan crowd? > > In that case, fuck 'em all. The Lord will know his own. I can’t influence Netanyahu. But maybe I can persuade one random person on this board. So I’m gonna try. You’re right. IDF has gone too far. I think they went too far back in October, but I’m not gonna cuss you out for reaching that realization now. Better late, and for reasons that I don’t think are the best, than never. But don’t do it to find common ground. Realize he’s gone too far because that’s the right thing to realize. And don’t take the pushback you’re getting as reason to reject what you realized. Take it as a reason to reassess your reasoning from earlier. Yes, what IDF did was terrible, here, because they deliberately targeted people who shouldn’t have been targeted. Is there any chance that they’ve been doing so prior to this point? I don’t really think answering here, right away, is best. I hope you’ll sit with it. I hope you’ll grant the same humanity and compassion to Gazan children that you’ve granted to aid workers. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/349 "2024-04-04T21:42:46Z")
Netanyahu _really_ doesn’t want Palestinians to eat. Next he’s going to bomb wheatfields around the globe just to make sure. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/350 "2024-04-04T21:58:08Z")
I was thinking the same thing. The result of this attack was a public relations hit to Israel but also the canceling of World Central Kitchen’s operations in Gaza and retreating of three ships carrying hundreds of tons of food, while also making other aid groups more wary of working in the country. This also wasn’t the first time that that aide group had been attacked, they were also targeted by sniper fire earlier in the week. Add in the March 1st attack at the food truck, and I’m wondering if maybe Netanyahu thinks maintaining his food blockade is worth having to send a short press release saying “Oops, sorry, don’t know how the could have happened.”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/351 "2024-04-05T00:49:56Z")
It’s very difficult to reach any conclusion other than that the people prosecuting this war _want_ the Gazan populace to suffer. Whether it’s out of bigotry, vengeance, Machiavellian maneuvering, or something else, their actions speak louder than words. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/352 "2024-04-05T01:08:40Z")
> **[Joe Biden calls for ‘immediate ceasefire’ in Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/04/israel-us-gaza-joe-biden-benjamin-netanyahu-phone-call)** > > US president also warns Netanyahu that Israel must protect civilians and aid workers or risk losing US support Based on the timing of this change of heart, I have to wonder… **Is Smapti actually Joe Biden??** 🤯 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/353 "2024-04-05T01:24:07Z")
Perhaps at this point a ceasefire would be for the best. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/354 "2024-04-05T01:53:54Z")
He’s not denying it! Busted! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/355 "2024-04-05T03:04:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yes, what IDF did was terrible, here, because they deliberately targeted people who shouldn’t have been targeted. Is there any chance that they’ve been doing so prior to this point? > > I don’t really think answering here, right away, is best. I hope you’ll sit with it. I hope you’ll grant the same humanity and compassion to Gazan children that you’ve granted to aid workers. I will think on these things. I hope you can understand how frustrating it is when people insult you and call you racist for agreeing with them. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > He’s not denying it! Busted! [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0ITft4WIAExBsS.jpg) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0ITft4WIAExBsS.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/356 "2024-04-05T03:27:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Perhaps at this point a ceasefire would be for the best. Golly, Mr. Wizard… Ya Think…!? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/357 "2024-04-05T03:35:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I hope you can understand how frustrating it is when people insult you and call you racist for agreeing with them. Well, you’ve been given a full day of opportunity why you feel these foreign aid workers are different from the toddlers being sniped, and you’ve chosen to instead cry about insinuations. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/358 "2024-04-05T03:40:45Z")
You know, you catch more flies with honey than by yelling at them for not flying into the trap fast enough. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/359 "2024-04-05T04:54:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You know, you catch more flies with honey than by yelling at them for not flying into the trap fast enough. > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > If Smapti could provide a reason why sniping babies isn’t bad, but bombing foreign aid workers is too far, I’m all ears. Kick rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/360 "2024-04-05T05:19:23Z")
I don’t owe you an explanation. Nothing I could say will make your lot happy anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=19)