# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/381 "2024-04-05T07:24:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The Plan B is presumably the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, which I do not support. A tad late for that, > [@Smapti](#): > > May they erase the memory of Amalek. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/382 "2024-04-05T07:26:47Z")
I regret saying that. That was out of anger. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/383 "2024-04-05T07:28:10Z")
Funny, I’ve been angry lots of times but I can’t remember ever flat out endorsing the extermination of an entire people group. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/384 "2024-04-05T07:30:41Z")
Fine. Don’t believe me if that makes it easier for you. I know that I could do a full 180 and declare that Israel is 100% in the wrong and it wouldn’t be good enough anyway because I didn’t declare it the day before the pogrom. You’re not interested in convincing me, you just want to preen about how you’re right and I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/385 "2024-04-05T07:36:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s because I am opposed to fascism. Sure, buddy, sure: > [@Ferguson, MO](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2326): > > > [@Ferguson, MO](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ferguson-mo/695354/2274): > > > > If you’re a German being told to do something by the SS, probably not a good idea. Is that your ideal for the US, to be a place where police authority is never to be questioned? > > Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/386 "2024-04-05T07:38:47Z")
Yes, I said that. **Ten years ago.** People can change in ten years and I no longer believe the things about police that I once did, as the police in this country have largely proven themselves incapable of controlling themselves. Should I go digging through every regrettable thing you’ve ever said and hold you accountable for it? I hope for your sake that you never wrote an essay for English class in 10th grade about why Tolkien is overrated. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/387 "2024-04-05T07:41:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, I said that. **Ten years ago.** People can change in ten years and I no longer believe the things about police that I once did, as the police in this country have largely proven themselves incapable of controlling themselves. Just like the Israeli government! > [@Smapti](#): > > Should I go digging through every regrettable thing you’ve ever said and hold you accountable for it? I’m your huckleberry… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/388 "2024-04-05T07:43:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > People can change in ten years Sure, I agree with that. Some posters have changed radically from their callow youth days. This would usually show in what they post. You, though… > [@Smapti](#): > > the police in this country have largely proven themselves incapable of controlling themselves. They were already like that back then. But you stanned them _hard_ nevertheless. Did any of that sink in as a learning experience? Clearly not. Whereas the IOF, on the other hand, are clearly models of self control… Different jackboot, same licker. > [@Smapti](#): > > Should I go digging through every regrettable thing you’ve ever said and hold you accountable for it? Go right ahead, I’ve said plenty I regret afterwards, you can start with Cesario and move on down. Difference being, I said I was wrong _and behave differently now_. I didn’t just move on to defending a _different_ waste of air out of misguided principles. > [@Smapti](#): > > I hope for your sake that you never wrote an essay for English class in 10th grade about why Tolkien is overrated. Errm, I wouldn’t regret that at all. Not a Tolkien fanboi. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/389 "2024-04-05T07:45:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, I said that. **Ten years ago.** People can change in ten years and I no longer believe the things about police that I once did, as the police in this country have largely proven themselves incapable of controlling themselves. I want to make a more serious point about this, Yes, this is your problem, you haven’t changed, you held a black and white opinion ten years ago and you hold a black and white opinion now. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/390 "2024-04-05T07:46:44Z")
Right. I can see that this is a waste of time. Even if I change my mind you’ll just call me a liar, so there’s no point in me even bothering to listen. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/391 "2024-04-05T07:48:24Z")
“They made me a fascist because they were mean to me!”. Why didn’t your role models think of _that_ defense at Nuremberg? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/392 "2024-04-05T07:54:31Z")
Seems like you _want_ me to be a genocidal fascist at this point. Sorry to disappoint. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/393 "2024-04-05T07:55:39Z")
Too late, try this, 🪞 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/394 "2024-04-05T08:27:41Z")
I call them like I see them. The genocidal part is a given, based off all your ongoing genocide denial. Actual Fascist, I wouldn’t actually go _that_ far. Fascist _fetishist,_ that’s always been clear, and even clearer lately from your own bootlicking posts in these Palestine threads. > [@Smapti](#): > > Sorry to disappoint. Sorry, did I miss an apology or a retraction somewhere? I remain un-disappointed. You’re performing _exactly_ as per expectations so far. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/395 "2024-04-05T13:45:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I will think on these things. I hope you can understand how frustrating it is when people insult you and call you racist for agreeing with them. People aren’t calling you racist for agreeing with them. They’re really really frustrated and despairing, and they’re calling you racist because of what’s bringing you to this epiphany, and to the specifics of the epiphany. I think it’s more complicated than racist assumptions–although, and please understand that I’m speaking to a common bias in thinking rather than making a fundamental character judgment–I do think there might be racist assumptions underlying your stance. Israel’s strike on the aid workers isn’t worse than their strikes on thousands of innocent Gazans. But they’re more visible; and the aid workers are better-connected; and it’s symbolic. IDF is admitting today that there were serious violations of their protocols that led to these strikes. But what are the chances that this is the only “serious violation” of protocols? That one of only a handful of such serious violations is a strike that kills non-Gazan aid workers? It seems blatantly obvious to me that IDF has gotten so sloppy with their protocols that something like this could happen; and that many, many–hundreds, or thousands–of innocent Gazans have been killed by similar “serious violations” of protocols. It’s frustrating if this is treated, not as symptomatic, but as an aberration. If you say, “Israel has gone too far _in this instance_,” that’s really frustrating. If you say, “Okay, _this instance_ is making me realize that Israel _has been going too far_,” that would hew closer to what’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/396 "2024-04-05T14:40:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > People aren’t calling you racist for agreeing with them. They’re really really frustrated and despairing, and they’re calling you racist because of what’s bringing you to this epiphany, and to the specifics of the epiphany. You’re trying to reason with someone who - when asked what the difference was between the aid workers and all the other people killed indiscriminately by the IDF - openly and blatantly advocated wiping every Palestinian from Gaza, repeatedly. Who cries about insinuated racism while stating everybody arguing with him just hates Jews. That’s why no one is giving his half-assed bullshit a pass. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/397 "2024-04-05T15:08:40Z")
It should probably be pointed out the the first person in this thread to call Smapti racist was Smapti. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/398 "2024-04-05T15:28:35Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > That’s why no one is giving his half-assed bullshit a pass. If someone can move an inch closer to opposing this humanitarian nightmare, it’s worth helping them move that inch–and then as many inches as can. It’s not giving someone a pass to move them away from support for something terrible. It may be awful of me, but I think about human interaction a lot in terms of [clicker training](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clicker_training). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/399 "2024-04-05T23:32:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It should probably be pointed out the the first person in this thread to call Smapti racist was Smapti. Demonstrably false, but you already know that. > [@MrDibble](#): > > When it was deliberately sniping Palestinian grannies and 5 year-olds, that was “just what happens in war” > > Foreign aid workers, and suddenly it’s “too far”. > > What’s the difference, I wonder…? ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/400 "2024-04-06T02:10:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Demonstrably false, but you already know that. [Mumble mumble mumble…](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=bVYXWVs0Prc) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=21)