# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/521 "2024-05-27T16:43:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > My evidence is that journalists are clearly being targeted, because they are being disproportionately killed in this active warzone compared to any other current one. Really now. Of course, the _number of journalists reporting on the conflict_ is disproportionately high as well. But we can gloss over that. > [@MrDibble](#): > > That, and the sniping little kids and grannies 🙄 /r/thathappened Here’s a hint. The fact that a “granny” or a “little kid” was killed is _not_ evidence that they were intentionally targeted, no matter how much emotionally charged language like ‘sniped’ you use. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/522 "2024-05-27T16:51:45Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > > What the fuck are you talking about??? > > What the fuck do you mean? What super specific dietary restriction that couldn’t be met during the war is causing people to die? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/523 "2024-05-27T16:52:30Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > What super specific dietary restriction that couldn’t be met during the war is causing people to die?. If you looked up the answers to my questions, you’d easily find out. How many people have starved in Gaza? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/524 "2024-05-27T16:54:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Israel makes extraordinary efforts to avoid civilian casualties HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/525 "2024-05-27T16:57:07Z")
If you’re too lazy or disingenuous to look it up, @crowmanyclouds, the answer is that the roughly two dozen people who have died of starvation in Gaza are all infants or very young children with special dietary needs. Which is tragic, and terrible, and I hope the war ends soon so these sorts of things stop happening, and with the removal of Hamas so they don’t happen again. But it isn’t evidence that Israel is intentionally starving Gazans in an attempted genocide. And it’s pretty disingenuous to pretend it is. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/526 "2024-05-27T16:58:17Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Wow, you’ve really pointed out specific facts I was wrong about, I’ve changed my mind. … … … NOT! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/527 "2024-05-27T17:01:26Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Of course, the _number of journalists reporting on the conflict_ is disproportionately high as well. Orders of magnitude higher? And I’m talking about the ones killed in their own houses, with their families. I’m not even going to go into [the ones “merely” arrested and tortured](https://cpj.org/2024/04/gaza-journalist-diaa-al-kahlout-describes-33-harrowing-days-in-israeli-custody/), because they’re the lucky ones… > [@Babale](#): > > /r/thathappened “Dude”, up to now you’ve been, well, defensive but rational in these threads. But now you want to crawl so far up the IOF’s butthole that you’d deny that they do [things like this](https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/01/25/palestinians-gaza-shooting-investigation-ward-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn) that even [Israel-loving CNN](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/feb/04/cnn-staff-pro-israel-bias) covered? Or [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war)? Yeah I’ll continue to fucking call that sniping, it sure as shit wasn’t indiscriminate fire. You’re starting to sound like Magiver or Smapti or similar, man. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/528 "2024-05-27T17:08:03Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > , and with the removal of Hamas so they don’t happen again. Just trying to clarify what you’re saying; How do you remove a political and military movement? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/529 "2024-05-27T17:09:59Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’ll note that you _still_ haven’t answered my question. I actually did. > [@Babale](#): > > You are predicting that significant numbers of Gazans are going to starve because Israel won’t let aid in, right? Yes. > [@Babale](#): > > _when_ do you think this will happen? Within a year from today, deaths from starvation will be in the thousands, absent significant change in Israel’s blockade. > [@Babale](#): > > These claims that Israel is sTaRvInG Gaza started on Oct 10th. Oh, like fuck, they did. They started _way_ before Oct 7 was even a gleam in Hamas’ eye: > **[Israel forced to release study on Gaza blockade](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-19975211)** > > An Israeli court forces the release of government research detailing the number of calories Palestinians in Gaza needed to consume to avoid malnutrition during Israel’s blockade. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/530 "2024-05-27T17:16:05Z")
The BBC recently reported that at least a couple of participants in a particularly egregious West Bank arson and murder spree were seen wearing IDF uniforms. While this is indicative of something at the rank-and-file level, I believe the targeting of journalists must have been concocted higher up. I’m still waiting for a whistleblower (though he or she would have to be particularly motivated and courageous considering what the army has done to whistleblowers in the past). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/531 "2024-05-27T17:19:48Z")
The Israeli government and IDF continue to work with Hamas (wittingly or not) for endless bloodshed and war: [https://x.com/academic\_la/status/1795098357595287983](https://x.com/academic_la/status/1795098357595287983) > The two worst fears regarding an operation in Rafah were that the displaced Palestinians in tents would be killed and that it would cause a crisis with the Egyptians. > > The horrific incident yesterday where children were killed and now the death of an Egyptian soldier (with more injured) have seen both scenarios come to pass within 24 hours. > > The operation in Rafah was going incredibly well until 24 hours ago. It has since become a disaster. All this plays into the hands of Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/532 "2024-05-27T17:24:35Z")
Well since this is the Pit, and a discussion not a debate, I’m not going to try to change your mind. You picked your team. However, I will tell you that the actions of the Netanyahu terror organization and the blood thirsty actions of their thug IDF killers have changed my mind from not caring about Israel to now believing it is a piece of shit nation led by a piece of shit government. You are now free to use the caps key in any childish way you like to tell me my beliefs are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/533 "2024-05-27T17:42:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Orders of magnitude higher? Per square mile? Yeah, obviously. It’s the most covered conflicts in the world while also covering one of the smallest areas of any conflict of this scale. > [@MrDibble](#): > > And I’m talking about the ones killed in their own houses, with their families. Is if Joe Palestinian is killed in his home with his family that is evidence that Israel practices indiscriminate bombing. But if Joe Palestinian was a journalist that is evidence that Israel targeted him and his family because they hate the press. Give me a fucking break. > [@MrDibble](#): > > But now you want to crawl so far up the IOF’s butthole that you’d deny that they do [things like this](https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/01/25/palestinians-gaza-shooting-investigation-ward-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn) that even [Israel-loving CNN](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/feb/04/cnn-staff-pro-israel-bias) covered? Or [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war)? You fucking weasel. You didn’t claim that IDF soldiers sometimes shoot people they should not. You claimed that what the IDF does is snipe grannies and children as part of a genocide. > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > You are predicting that significant numbers of Gazans are going to starve because Israel won’t let aid in, right? > > Yes. Finally, a solid fucking prediction. Well, we shall see. I highly doubt it. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Within a year from today, deaths from starvation will be in the thousands, **absent significant change in Israel’s blockade.** …or maybe not. What exactly does the emphasized bit mean? For example, over the last couple weeks, daily average number of trucks of aid coming in is back up to the 4-500 from before the war. If that continues for the rest of the war, will you count that as a “significant change in Israel’s blockade”? Because that’s something that has _already happened_ as of this conversation. > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > These claims that Israel is sTaRvInG Gaza started on Oct 10th. > > Oh, like fuck, they did. They started _way_ before Oct 7 was even a gleam in Hamas’ eye: I was literally responding to a post where you said that you didn’t claim Israel was starving Gazans as part of an attempted genocide on Oct 6: > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Or are you always gonna claim this > > I didn’t claim this on Oct 6th, so obviously not _always_. So I am pretty confused about what point you are trying to make at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/534 "2024-05-27T17:43:24Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Just trying to clarify what you’re saying; How do you remove a political and military movement? Holy fucking shit, do we have to do this in every thread on the topic? For the billionth and first time: you destroy enough Hamas personnel and infrastructure that they can no longer operate successfully, and then you bring in a different group to replace them so they cannot spring back. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/535 "2024-05-27T17:44:35Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > You picked your team. It might be a game where you pick teams to you; to me, it is real life. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/536 "2024-05-27T18:03:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Per square mile? No, overall. How does it compare to, say, Ukraine, in terms of no. of journalists covering it? > [@Babale](#): > > Give me a fucking break. Yeah, nothing will convince you that the IOF aren’t saints, obviously. Just checking, since you skipped the question once already - did _you_ ever serve? > [@Babale](#): > > You fucking weasel. You fucking fascist bootlicker. > [@Babale](#): > > You didn’t claim that IDF soldiers sometimes shoot people they should not. You claimed that what the IDF does is snipe grannies and children as part of a genocide. “sometimes” is doing around 20 000 lives worth of lifting, there. You’re the motherfucker who thought he was so fucking clever with his casual Reddit-style dismissal of targeted killing, shitstain. And killing thousands of children _is_ the very model of a modern major genocide, damn skippy. > [@Babale](#): > > What exactly does the emphasized bit mean? It means Israel lets more than a few hundred truckloads through per day. It means they don’t do their assinine filtering for goods completely unrelated to warfare, like blocking fucking _coriander_. > [@Babale](#): > > If that continues for the rest of the war, will you count that as a “significant change in Israel’s blockade”? No, back to the same shitty state as before is not “a significant change”. > [@Babale](#): > > I was literally responding to a post where you said that you didn’t claim Israel was starving Gazans as part of an attempted genocide on Oct 6: “They did” and “I didn’t” have two different subjects, you know? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/537 "2024-05-27T18:10:28Z")
Oh. I’m sorry. I haven’t read every thread on this topic. I just asked you questions. This is the second time you’ve blown up at me for horseshit. Now I’m pissed at you, but despite that, I’m STILL going to TRY and unbiasedly navigate who I think is in the wrong, even though the people I’ve met on your side have been nothing but, just nasty. You assume people are protesting this mess are “Jew haters”? What about all the Jewish people who disagree with you on this? ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/538 "2024-05-27T18:16:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > to me, it is real life I get that. And it’s easy for an armchair general like me to sit a couple of thousand miles away in safety and offer criticism. It’s a really thorny issue. Over here there’s a lively debate in the press between an Iranian-born muslim who thinks that the protesters on the local campus must stop and a Swedish Jew (born to parents who got out just before _Kristallnacht_) who thinks they should keep protesting . @Ryan_Liam I didn’t “ad hom” you. I told you to fuck off, since what you’re saying is stupid. If you are American and whining about “terrorism,” wiki has enlightened me that _after_ 9/11, there has been about 10 “Islamic Terrorist” attacks with fewer than 100 dead - total (many more injured, especially in Boston) in the U.S. The vast majority of “Islamic Terrorist” attacks have been is Muslim countries. You come here, only to re-enforce the stereotype about the Horrible Muslim Hordes. So again: Fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/539 "2024-05-27T18:25:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Per square mile? > > No, overall. How does it compare to, say, Ukraine, in terms of no. of journalists covering it? Bombs don’t fall “overall”. You don’t think the fact that Gaza is small and crowded has something to do with it? Anyways, there are about [12,000](https://rsf.org/en/) accredited journalists in Ukraine and about [3,400](https://theconversation.com/how-israel-continues-to-censor-journalists-covering-the-war-in-gaza-228241#:~:text=The%20Israeli%20government%20says%20the,since%20October%202023%20is%203%2C400.) in the much smaller area of Israel; and of course, many of these Palestinian journalists aren’t accredited by Israel, so this is a significant undercount. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Just checking, since you skipped the question once already - did _you_ ever serve? I didn’t see that question before, but I can answer, no I did not. I was in the US by service age. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/540 "2024-05-27T18:27:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > You didn’t claim that IDF soldiers sometimes shoot people they should not. You claimed that what the IDF does is snipe grannies and children as part of a genocide. > > “sometimes” is doing around 20 000 lives worth of lifting, there. 20,000 people in Gaza were killed in situations like the one described in the link you sent? Interesting claim. > [@MrDibble](#): > > It means Israel lets more than a few hundred truckloads through per day. It means they don’t do their assinine filtering for goods completely unrelated to warfare, like blocking fucking _coriander_. OK, great. So in a year when thousands of people have not starved in Gaza, I expect an apology. Just kidding - I expect you to deflect and shift the goal posts and do whatever else it takes to keep accusing us of genocide. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=28)