# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/601 "2024-05-28T03:18:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Exactly. You’ve been posting the same hyperbolic rant for seven months now and this mass starvation and die-off is always just about to happen ANY DAY NOW. You’ve been saying the Gazans are out of food since October. It’s been 3 months since you claimed the people had nothing to eat but grass. I’ve lost track of how many times “the last hospital” has been destroyed. …you can lie about the things I’ve said all you want. I’ve provided citations for everything I’ve said. I said in October if the siege continued there will be famine, and now we have famine. Yes, some people were eating grass, and yes, some people are still now eating grass. And I’ve been documenting the state of the hospital, largely reporting what has been said in the most recent Gaza Flash Updates. > [@Smapti](#): > > And yet the HIGHEST estimated death counts, which are coming from literal propaganda outlets anyway, don’t go much higher than 35,000 - barely 1.5% of Gaza’s population (which incidentslly has quadrupled since Israel first took over in 1967.) Every humanitarian agency have acknowledged that the numbers we have right now are likely to be a significant undercount. And “barely 1.5% of the population” is a fucking huge amount of people, to be honest with you. It isn’t “barely” at all. > [@Smapti](#): > > That’s not genocide. This isn’t how a genocide is measured, or defined. > [@Smapti](#): > > That’s barely a rounding error. Covid has likely killed more Gazan civilians than Israel has. This is _exactly_ the sort of thing a supporter of genocide would say. “THE DEATHS WERE NOTHING BUT A ROUNDING ERROR.” Pyschotic. > [@Smapti](#): > > You’re full of hot air, hyperbole, and antisemitic propaganda and you should really just shut up. None of this is true. What is true is that you don’t think Palestinians are human, and don’t deserve the same right to life as everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/602 "2024-05-28T03:22:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You’re clearly not interested in any evidence that Israel has just cause to operate in Gaza, because you’ve made your mind up about it being a genocide before the war even started. I checked, BTW; he’s been crying “genocide” since at least October 14th. > [@Reply to Babale re: Hamas and Israel](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reply-to-babale-re-hamas-and-israel/991469/62): > > …one faction has cut off the power, the electricity, the water, the internet, ordered 1 million people to evacuate and is bombing them, eliminating entire generations of families. These are _genocidal actions_. People don’t have to explicitly state a desire for genocide in order to commit a genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/603 "2024-05-28T03:25:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I checked, BTW; he’s been crying “genocide” since at least October 14th. …they _were_ genocidal actions. I’ve been proven right. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/604 "2024-05-28T03:27:34Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And I’ve been documenting the state of the hospital, largely reporting what has been said in the most recent Gaza Flash Updates. Hospital? What hospital? Last month you said there weren’t any. > [@Money for peace - proposal for peace in the Middle East](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/money-for-peace-proposal-for-peace-in-the-middle-east/999638/33): > > Proposal for peace: instead of giving every single Israeli and Palestinian $5000, invest that money in rebuilding the Gazan healthcare system that has been obliterated over the last six months. Because an extra $5000 a year isn’t going to help much when there aren’t any hospitals to even get basic care. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/605 "2024-05-28T03:35:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Hospital? What hospital? Last month you said there weren’t any. …you do understand the difference between “hospitals” and “healthcare system?” Because the healthcare system _has_ been destroyed. But individual hospitals are still operating, at various levels of service. Some are barely able to offer emergency care. But that link doesn’t say what you claim it says. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/606 "2024-05-28T04:04:42Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …you do understand the difference between “hospitals” and “healthcare system?” Yes, and I also understand that you said “there aren’t any hospitals to even get basic care.” Those are YOUR WORDS - that as of April 1st there aren’t any hospitals in Gaza. Not that “the healthcare system has been destroyed”, that there “aren’t any hospitals.” So were you wrong in April, or are you wrong now? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/607 "2024-05-28T04:18:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So were you wrong in April, or are you wrong now? …do you even understand the context of the thread I posted that into? It was a thread that suggested that “in exchange for a peace agreement that successfully lasts for 1 year, every single Israeli and Palestinian be paid $5000.” My argument, that I stand by, is that $5000 is going to do jack-shit to provide peace when aren’t any hospitals to even get _basic care._ Do you know what basic care is? Because there aren’t any hospitals where you can _just get basic care_ right now. You’ll be lucky to get a bed. Many patients are just treated on the floor. From February: > [@BBC](#): > > **Doctors across Gaza have described operating on patients without anaesthetic, turning people with chronic conditions away, and treating rotting wounds with limited medical supplies.** > > “Because of the shortage of painkillers we leave patients to scream for hours and hours,” one told the BBC. > > The World Health Organization (WHO) has described the state of healthcare in Gaza as being “beyond words”. > **[Gaza doctors: ‘We leave patients to scream for hours and hours’](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68331988)** > > Doctors in Gaza say the healthcare system is broken and they are operating on people without anaesthetic. I stand by what I said. No, you aren’t going to be able to get basic care from a hospital in Gaza. Its a fucking horror show. And instead of wasting time trying to find a “gotcha” I suggest instead you invest that time in finding out the state of the healthcare system in Gaza. Because it’s _infinitely_ worse than how I could describe it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/608 "2024-05-28T04:18:34Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > What is true is that you don’t think Palestinians are human, and don’t deserve the same right to life as everyone else. Of course they’re human. That’s why they deserve better than to be condemned to Hamas rule forever as you would have them be. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/609 "2024-05-28T04:20:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Of course they’re human. …the thing is though, you will never ever be able to talk about Palestinians without > [@Smapti](#): > > That’s why they deserve better than to be condemned to Hamas rule forever as you would have them be. invoking Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/610 "2024-05-28T04:20:59Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Because there aren’t any hospitals where you can _just get basic care_ right now. Right, so there are plenty of hospitals, just not the kind of hospital where they take care of sick and injured people. Just the other kind. You must be an Olympic gymnast the way you contort and twist your own statements to avoid admitting you’ve been wrong for 7 months and you’re still wrong now. There is no genocide, no mass starvation, no ethnic cleansing. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/611 "2024-05-28T04:28:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Right, so there are plenty of hospitals, > [@WHO](#): > > Like the majority of the north, Al-Shifa Hospital ­– once the largest and most important referral hospital in Gaza – is now an empty shell after the latest siege. No patients remain at the facility. Most of the buildings are extensively damaged or destroyed and the majority of equipment is unusable or reduced to ashes. The WHO team said that the scale of devastation has left the facility completely non-functional, further reducing access to life-saving health care in Gaza. Restoring even minimal functionality in the short term seems implausible and will require substantial efforts to assess and clear the grounds for unexploded ordnance to ensure safety and accessibility for partners to bring in equipment and supplies. > > The hospital’s emergency department, surgical, and maternity ward buildings are extensively damaged due to explosives and fire. The western wall of the emergency department and northern wall of the neonatal intensive care department (NICU) have been torn down. At least 115 beds in what once was the emergency department have been burnt and 14 incubators in the NICU destroyed, among other assets. An in-depth assessment by a team of engineers is needed to determine if these buildings are safe for future use. > > The hospital’s oxygen plant has been destroyed, leaving Kamal Adwan Hospital as the only source of medical oxygen production in the north. Further comprehensive assessment is essential to evaluate the functionality of vital equipment such as CT scanners, ventilators, sterilization devices, and surgical equipment, including surgical tools and anaesthesia devices. The current situation has left north Gaza without CT scanning capabilities and significantly diminished laboratory capacity, severely compromising effective diagnosis, which will increase avoidable deaths. > > Between mid-October and end March, over half of all WHO missions have been denied, delayed, impeded or postponed. As health needs soar, the lack of a functional deconfliction system is a major obstacle in delivering humanitarian aid – including medical supplies, fuel, food and water to hospitals – anywhere close to the scale needed. > > Six months – half a year – into the war, the destruction of Al-Shifa Hospital and Nasser Medical Complex has broken the backbone of the already ailing health system. Prior to the latest siege, WHO and partners had supported the revival of basic services at Al-Shifa Hospital, and Nasser Medical Complex was regularly supplied to continue serving as the main hospital in south Gaza. These efforts are now lost. > > **As WHO marks World Health Day tomorrow, under the theme “My health, my right”, this basic right is utterly out of reach for the civilians of Gaza.** **Access to health care in Gaza has become totally inadequate, and the ability of WHO and partners to help is constantly disrupted and impeded.** > > Of the 36 main hospitals that used to serve over 2 million Gazans, only 10 remain somewhat functional, with severe limitations on the types of services they can deliver. [Six months of war leave Al-Shifa hospital in ruins, WHO mission reports](https://www.who.int/news/item/06-04-2024-six-months-of-war-leave-al-shifa-hospital-in-ruins--who-mission-reports#:~:text=Access%20to%20health%20care%20in,of%20services%20they%20can%20deliver). …I stand by everything I’ve said in this thread and others. > [@Smapti](#): > > You must be an Olympic gymnast the way you contort and twist your own statements to avoid admitting you’ve been wrong for 7 months and you’re still wrong now. I’ve provided multiple citations that have backed up everything I’ve said. You’ve bought _nothing_. The healthcare system in Gaza had been destroyed. Basic healthcare is out of reach. > [@Smapti](#): > > There is no genocide, no mass starvation, no ethnic cleansing. I disagree. And I’ve backed up my position with multiple cites. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/612 "2024-05-28T04:34:15Z")
The simple math proves me right. There haven’t even been enough deaths in Gaza to put a dent in the birth rate, let alone put the survival of the people in doubt. By the time this war is over in another month or two there will be more Palestinians in Gaza than when it began. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/613 "2024-05-28T04:54:00Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > I’ve posted plenty of videos and pictures, and each time your response was to bend over backwards to dismiss it. > > Here’s your chance. You can share them here. Go for it. Justify the damage and destruction of an estimated 70% (recorded in December) of homes. Here you go. Tunnels under Al Shifa: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/PR2w_wDf-DY/maxresdefault.jpg "Inside Hamas ‘tunnel base’ beneath Al-Shifa hospital | Telegraph analyses IDF footage") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR2w_wDf-DY) Can’t wait to see how you move the goal post next. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/614 "2024-05-28T06:08:08Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Economic Freedom Fighters You spell about as well as you think. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > It’s never been genocide That’s about as convincing as Israel was at the ICJ 🤣 > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Whys it a strawman? So you admit it’s just trolling, then? > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > ut Israel hasn’t attempted to genocide Gazans Except it has. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Hamas has certainly raped and murdered its way though the Israeli population Now who’s doing hyperbole. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > isolated [![](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/010/692/You_Keep_Using_That_Word_meme_banner.jpg) ](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/010/692/You_Keep_Using_That_Word_meme_banner.jpg) > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Just like all those former Apartheid lead military officials who fought in Angola Guy, we’ve already been over how these sad _tu quoques_ about SA doesn’t work on me. It’s about as effective as “But, Hamas!”, only somehow more pathetic. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Oh yes the charter… Speaking of that … must be an echo. > [@Babale](#): > > No, but they are certainly spread out across multiple cities near the various fronts. So you argument is that journalists in Palestine are just dying because they’re in some sort of kill box? Does that explain why their homes specifically have been targeted? > [@Babale](#): > > You are pointing to an incident that we can argue over wheter it represents an example of the first or second scenario No, it’s very clearly just the first - she had a kid in her hand carrying a motherfucking white flag. > [@Babale](#): > > in fact the vast majority of casualties come from neither 1 nor 2 but 3. I see no difference between 1 and 3 when you _know_ 3 is going to hit many civilians. That is _cold-bloodedly_ choosing to kill those civilians. Damn straight I count those as 1s. 2 is the much more forgivable one, but you seem to think 3 is A-OK. It is not (and is a war crime) > [@Babale](#): > > Unless Israel radically changes course (as in, a Ben Gvir and Co led coup, or something) I just don’t see that happening. What? No, all Israel has to do is keep on its _current_ course and that will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/615 "2024-05-28T06:21:49Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What? No, all Israel has to do is keep on its _current_ course and that will happen. So your lot have been telling us for months now. Banquet\_Bear has been claiming it’s imminent since December. > [@Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/2239): > > Cindy McCain, director of the United Nations World Food Programme, has said Gaza is on the brink of famine. People that I’ve been following are now sick, some bed-ridden for days, because it isn’t just the bombs that are killing people. Disease, infection, starvation. We are at _that_ stage of the conflict now. Exactly when is this mass starvation supposed to start happening? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/616 "2024-05-28T06:44:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You spell about as well as you think. Wouldn’t be surprised if you supported Malema on the QT > [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s about as convincing as Israel was at the ICJ 🤣 Strong retort, again doesn’t mean Israel is comitting genocide > Except it has Where’s the proof? The West Bank would be getting the same treatment aa Gaza if it was, bombing people doesn’t equal genocide anymore than the US bombing Japan did. > Now who’s doing hyperbole. So Hamas rapes and murders of Israelis are now reduced to hyperbole? Lol > Guy, we’ve already been over how these sad _tu quoques_ about SA doesn’t work on me. It’s about as effective as “But, Hamas!”, only somehow more pathetic. It’s pretty obvious where your biases are, the ANC was supportive of the PLO during its struggle of Apartheid, as Israel supported the SA government at the time, so naturally your sympathies lie with the Palestinians to the point you give them Carte Blanche to do whatever they need to do to get back at Israel, even if its represented by a repressive Islamist organisation. > Speaking of that … must be an echo. Yeah you ignoring it ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/617 "2024-05-28T06:46:12Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > This is _exactly_ the sort of thing a supporter of genocide would say. “THE DEATHS WERE NOTHING BUT A ROUNDING ERROR.” Alright, tanky, let’s do the math. [According to the World Factbook,](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/gaza-strip/#people-and-society) Gaza has a population of about 2.14 million. [According to al-Jazeera,](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker) which you consider to be a reliable source, the Gazan death toll is about 36,500, or about 54,500 per year. Therefore, if the war were to continue indefinitely at the current rate (which is extremely unlikely since once the Rafah offensive is complete major combat operations will end) it will take Israel until 2064 to affect the total depopulation of Gaza. That’s already pretty unimpressive, but it doesn’t take the replacement rate into account. Going back to the Factbook we see that Gaza has a birth rate of 26.8 per 1,000. Given that population of 2.14 million we should therefore expect to see about 57,500 births per year, and if we assume those births are evenly spread throughout the year we can estimate that about 38,200 Gazans have been born since 10/7. Therefore, the net reduction in population as the result of Israel’s genocide is roughly -2800. How many genocides have you heard of where the population of the targeted group increases? If I wanted the Palestinians genocided I’d be sorely disappointed with Israel for the results they’re getting. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/618 "2024-05-28T07:23:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The simple math proves me right. …umm, okay, lets see that maths. > [@Smapti](#): > > There haven’t even been enough deaths in Gaza to put a dent in the birth rate, let alone put the survival of the people in doubt. LOL. This isn’t how a genocide is measured. This isn’t how it works. And we don’t even know what the birth rate is now. Genocide. [https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) Ethnic Cleansing. [https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/ethnic-cleansing.shtml](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/ethnic-cleansing.shtml) You will note that there is no mention of birth rates or death rates anywhere. Because that has never been how genocide or ethnic cleansing has been defined. > [@Smapti](#): > > By the time this war is over in another month or two there will be more Palestinians in Gaza than when it began. You don’t even know what the birth rate is right now you stupid piece of shit. Miscarriages are up 300%. Women are giving birth in tents. > **[The War in Gaza Is Decimating Maternal and Infant Health](https://www.thecut.com/article/gaza-maternal-infant-health.html)** > > Rondi Anderson, a midwife who advises the aid group Project Hope, explains how four months of crisis have affected pregnant women and newborns. > [@The Cut](#): > > Since Israel’s campaign against Hamas began last year, health-care workers have reported that [miscarriages in Gaza](https://jezebel.com/miscarriages-in-gaza-have-increased-300-under-israeli-1851168680) have increased around 300 percent, according to the humanitarian aid group CARE. U.N. agencies have pointed out that women and children [are disproportionately bearing the burden of the conflict](https://www.who.int/news/item/03-11-2023-women-and-newborns-bearing-the-brunt-of-the-conflict-in-gaza-un-agencies-warn), not only in terms of casualties, but also in reduced access to health care. Show me the numbers. What is the birth rate in Gaza now? > [@Smapti](#): > > [According to the World Factbook,](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/gaza-strip/#people-and-society) Gaza has a population of about 2.14 million. [According to al-Jazeera,](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker) which you consider to be a reliable source, the Gazan death toll is about 36,500, or about 54,500 per year. Therefore, if the war were to continue indefinitely at the current rate (which is extremely unlikely since once the Rafah offensive is complete major combat operations will end) it will take Israel until 2064 to affect the total depopulation of Gaza. What the fuck kind of Mickey Mouse maths is this? You don’t even mention the birth rate which was an essential part of your maths. My claims are that Palestinians will either be forced to leave Gaza, live under brutal occupation, or they will die. No matter how much you play with the numbers, that isn’t going to change anything I’ve said. Let’s apply your working to the Bosnian Genocide. Is it no longer a genocide? You can actually test your formula. Tell me how it works out. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/619 "2024-05-28T07:37:17Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You don’t even know what the birth rate is right now you stupid piece of shit. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Show me the numbers. What is the birth rate in Gaza now? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You don’t even mention the birth rate which was an essential part of your maths. You’re bad at this. > [@Smapti](#): > > Going back to the Factbook we see that Gaza has a birth rate of 26.8 per 1,000. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/620 "2024-05-28T07:37:24Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Here you go. Tunnels under Al Shifa: …is that it? Is that fucking it? Seven months of death and destruction, and the best you’ve got are a handful of tunnels that even the New York Times and the Washington Post have effectively debunked? You were asked to justify the damage and destruction of an estimated 70% (recorded in December) of homes. And you show me the dubious videos of Al freaking Shifa again? A reminder that this is what the IDF _claimed_ was under Al Shifa. > **[Home to Hamas' Headquarters, This is an IDF 3D Diagram of the Shifa Hospital:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pTYHBZVgVQ%2F)** > > The Shifa Hospital is not only the largest hospital in Gaza but it also acts as the main headquarters for Hamas’ terrorist activity. Terrorism does not belon... They just made it all up. And Israeli forces took over Al Shifa in November. They had complete control over it. They arrested the Director of the hospital and nobody has seen or heard from him since. [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)00768-2/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)00768-2/fulltext) Where the fuck is he? Just add it to the list of war crimes and atrocities. But Israel had full control of Al Shifa. Then it was such a critical threat to security _they abandoned it_. Then they returned a few months later, lied about it being full of terrorists, kicked out the patients, killed hundreds of people, then set it on fire. So what is it do you think a handful of tunnels actually proves? Because I asked you about _homes_. I asked you for proof to justify the damage and destruction to over 70% of homes. Last time I checked, hospitals aren’t homes. It’s really painfully pathetic that this is all you’ve got. And I _know_ it’s all you’ve got, because as I’ve said, _I’ve looked for it._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=32)