# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/681 "2024-05-28T15:45:39Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I sincerely doubt the Israelis are deliberately targeting the population in any other sense of trying to uproot Hamas infrastructure. So then, if it were demonstrated that at least some IDF members are indeed “deliberately targeting” civilians, then that would be war crimes and completely unacceptable? And if Israeli leadership isn’t doing enough to stop it, then they would be complicit in war crimes? > [@](#): > > And in the midst of all this is the complete and utter disregard for Palestinian complicity in their own misery, they started this current conflict in October, some responsibility is there’s to bear in regards to how it turned out. There are millions of Gazans (and other Palestinians). The vast majority had absolutely nothing to do with the Oct 7th attacks. Why are you casting blame on millions of men, women, and children, the vast majority of whom have done nothing wrong? When you do this, repeatedly, it leads me to believe that you are a bigot, whether you realize or not. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/682 "2024-05-28T21:24:40Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > And you think that in the near 20 years that Hamas controlled the strop it hasn’t compromised the entire civilians infrastructure to its own benefit? …and you think in the last seven months, where IDF soldier daily share on Facebook and TikTok video of them cheering as they blow up Mosques and apartment blocks, bulldoze hospitals, shoot up schools, burn down libraries, wear [women’s lingerie](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Lk_vZMVjvPU?app=desktop), that they would have shown some evidence that Hamas had compromised the entire civilian infrastructure to its own benefit? Because the burden is on _them_. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I sincerely doubt the Israelis are deliberately targeting the population in any other sense of trying to uproot Hamas infrastructure. You guys act as if civilians don’t get harmed in warfare. Can you be a bit more specific? What Hamas infrastructure has been targeted? > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > And in the midst of all this is the complete and utter disregard for Palestinian complicity in their own misery, they started this current conflict in October, some responsibility is there’s to bear in regards to how it turned out. I’ve said over and over again that what Hamas did was an atrocity. But that doesn’t excuse or explain Is Israel’s conduct during this “war.” > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > No they haven’t and besides, Yes they have. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > his spirrious use of the term genocide cheapen the term Bullshit. A statement from the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention made today: > [@Twitter](#): > > The Lemkin Institute has had it with the cynical lies and propaganda from Israel and the USA. One can have different views about the definition of genocide, but one may not use definitional disputes to deny genocide. If a genocide may be occurring, every nation is compelled by customary law to try to stop it. > > Let us be clear: Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. The US is complicit in genocide. These are not political statements. They are statements that are made from knowledge and experience. Nevertheless, you do not need a PhD , a law degree, or X-ray vision to see the genocidal dimensions of Israel’s carnage in Gaza. It is clear in the behavior of the state and its military, on full display in yesterday’s horrific bombardment of a Rafah camp. [https://x.com/LemkinInstitute/status/1795295046088221017](https://x.com/LemkinInstitute/status/1795295046088221017) I’ll take their word over yours. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > which do happen, like the Yazidis, for example. From the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention wiki page: > [@](#): > > In 2017 [Elisa von Joeden-Forgey](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elisa_von_Joeden-Forgey&action=edit&redlink=1) and [Irene Victoria Massimino](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Irene_Victoria_Massimino&action=edit&redlink=1) founded _The Iraq Project for Genocide Prevention and Accountability_ to address grassroots desire for ending cycles of violence and promoting lasting peace in [Iraq](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) **following the** **[ISIS genocide of the Yazidi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi_genocide).** > **[Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkin_Institute_for_Genocide_Prevention)** > > Questia  · New York Times > Los Angeles Times > Wall Street Journal · Washington Post Financial Times · BBC News > The Age · The Hindu > News Limited · Fairfax Media > Microsoft Academic: new  · original > Oxford Reference  · JSTOR > PUBMED Central  · Questia > HighBeam  · Internet Archive > The Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention (LIGP), or Lemkin Institute, is a multinational non-governmental organization based in the United States. Its mission is to "\[connect\] the global grassroots with the tools o... ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/683 "2024-05-28T22:51:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There are millions of Gazans (and other Palestinians). The vast majority had absolutely nothing to do with the Oct 7th attacks. > > Why are you casting blame on millions of men, women, and children, the vast majority of whom have done nothing wrong? Do you think that the vast majority of Palestinians want Hamas to be gone? And if so, do you think Hamas is still in control because they haven’t tried to get rid of them or have just been unable to remove them? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/684 "2024-05-28T23:04:06Z")
I have no idea, and at this point it doesn’t even matter. When civilians are continuously bombed, I’m not going to judge them in the moment for their political opinions, whatever they are. Right now Gazan civilians have virtually no power to do anything at all – including take on Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/685 "2024-05-28T23:12:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > When civilians are continuously bombed, I’m not going to judge them in the moment for their political opinions, whatever they are. Right now Gazan civilians have virtually no power to do anything at all – including take on Hamas. So your solution is to have Israel back down, forget the remaining hostages - after all, they are probably dead anyway - and let Hamas retrench and rebuild to put the Gazans squarely under their control again? Meanwhile, Israel waits for Oct 7th Part Two - Electric Boogaloo? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/686 "2024-05-28T23:30:09Z")
Where did I say any of that? No idea what you’re referring to. If you object to something I’ve said, I invite you to quote my words. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/687 "2024-05-28T23:42:10Z")
Are there no choices for Israel between backing down and bombing densely packed civilian population centers? ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/688 "2024-05-28T23:58:25Z")
There are, but it can’t be unilateral. Hamas needs to be gone for a lasting peace with a two state solution and the Palestinian and Israel leadership and people all have to want it. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/689 "2024-05-29T00:05:09Z")
I agree, and at the moment, I see the two biggest problems as being Hamas and Israeli leadership. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/690 "2024-05-29T01:00:41Z")
Right now, and for the last several months, Israel has been giving Hamas what they wanted. This is basically just a continuance of long standing Netanyahu policy - speak as if he’s against Hamas, but under the table, give them what they want, because Hamas is the best partner against the two state solution. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/691 "2024-05-29T01:53:53Z")
And, surprising no one, the massive explosion in Rafah happened not because the IDF dropped massive incendiary bombs to burn refugee tents; it happened because Hamas was storing and firing rockets from that location. [https://www.axios.com/2024/05/28/israel-claims-deadly-rafah-blaze-caused-by-secondary-explosion](https://www.axios.com/2024/05/28/israel-claims-deadly-rafah-blaze-caused-by-secondary-explosion) But I’m sure there are endless excuses for why it was OK for them to place a truck full of rockets in the middle of an area occupied by civilians. All to avoid admitting the true reason: so that Israel cannot strike back without a bunch of civilians dying. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/692 "2024-05-29T02:14:47Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And, surprising no one, the massive explosion in Rafah happened not because the IDF dropped massive incendiary bombs to burn refugee tents; it happened because Hamas was storing and firing rockets from that location. …your cite doesn’t claim that Hamas were “firing rockets from that location.” It says “the IDF didn’t know about” any weapons there, it says the fire was caused by secondary explosions and speculates as to what might have caused it. And while this particular incident made it big in the mainstream media, it wasn’t the only massacre that night, it wasn’t the only incident where women and children were killed, it happens multiple times every single night, every single day of this “war.” > [@flash update](#): > > The following are among the deadliest incidents reported between 23 and 26 May: > > - On 23 May, at about 18:20 and again at 21:00, 16 Palestinians were reportedly killed and others injured when the warehouse of the Ministry of Social Development, reportedly sheltering internally displaced persons (IDPs), was hit near Abu Sultan Street in eastern Deir al Balah. > - On 24 May, at about 19:00, at least eight Palestinians were reportedly killed and others injured when a residential building was hit on Yafa Street in Ad Daraj area, in Gaza city. > - On 25 May, at about 12:00, ten Palestinians were reportedly killed and 17 injured when Al Nazla School, reportedly sheltering IDPs, was hit in Al Saftawi area, in North Gaza. > - On 25 May, at about 13:00, seven Palestinians, including five children, were reportedly killed and others injured when a house was hit in Beit Hanoun, in North Gaza. > - On 25 May, at about 23:00, six Palestinians, including two girls and three women, were reportedly killed when a house was hit in Khirbet Al Adass area in central Rafah. > **[Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel | Flash Update #171 \[EN/AR/HE\] -...](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-171-enarhe)** > > Situation Report in Arabic on occupied Palestinian territory and 1 other country about Contributions, Food and Nutrition, Epidemic and more; published on 27 May 2024 by OCHA ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/693 "2024-05-29T02:15:54Z")
Well if Israel claims it, it must be true. Because somehow a match or even just sparks from a vehicle dragging chains along the road can ignite a fire that burns down a whole forest, but two thirty-five pound bombs couldn’t possibly cause a fire to burn down tents in a tightly packed encampment. No siree, just no way. Give me a fucking break. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/694 "2024-05-29T03:09:43Z")
Is there anything Hamas has done that you won’t deny, excuse, or rationalize? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/695 "2024-05-29T03:14:55Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Well if Israel claims it, it must be true. You’re right, your theory that we did it out of a lust for Palestinian blood (source: Banquet Buddy told you) is _far_ more likely. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/696 "2024-05-29T03:22:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Is there anything Hamas has done that you won’t deny, excuse, or rationalize? …is there anything (apart from killing a handful of white people) that the IDF has done that you won’t deny, excuse, or rationalize? Because I’ve repeatedly condemned what Hamas did on October the 7th. They were an atrocity, a warcrime, and the people responsible should be held to account. What we know about Rafah is that millions of people have been herded into what is effectively now a killzone. That no where is safe. If they try and head home in the north they risk getting killed by IDF snipers. If they head to the “designated safe zones” there won’t be any humanitarian set up to help them. It was a situation that was _forced on them_. And if the IDF claims are indeed correct (which I doubt) then the only reason there are civilians there is because there is _nowhere else for them to go_. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/697 "2024-05-29T03:22:36Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Because I’ve repeatedly condemned what Hamas did on October the 7th. And that’s the last thing they’ve done that you’ve condemned. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/698 "2024-05-29T03:27:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And that’s the last thing they’ve done that you’ve condemned. …its a pretty fucking important thing. And my question to you stands: is there anything (apart from killing a handful of white people) that the IDF has done that you won’t deny, excuse, or rationalize? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/699 "2024-05-29T03:31:30Z")
I don’t condone what Israel is doing in the West Bank. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/700 "2024-05-29T03:32:30Z")
…so everything they’ve done in Gaza (apart from killing a handful of aid workers) is just fine? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=36)