# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/701 "2024-05-29T03:34:57Z")
I answered your question. It’s your turn now. What has Hamas done since October 7th that you won’t deny, excuse, or rationalize? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/702 "2024-05-29T03:39:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What has Hamas done since October 7th that you won’t deny, excuse, or rationalize? …I condemn the taking of the hostages, I condemn them not releasing them. I condemn the abusive treatment, I condemn not giving access to the Red Cross. I condemn them each and every time they target civilians. I condemn them for their cruel and harsh system of governance. I condemn them for not allowing any elections. I condemn them for every single act of terrorism they have ever done. Now back to my question. so everything the IDF have done in Gaza (apart from killing a handful of aid workers) is just fine? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/703 "2024-05-29T03:44:39Z")
I condemn them allowing Hamas to come to power in the first place. I condemn them not removing Hamas from power 18 years ago. I condemn Netenyahu for trying to use the war to stay in office. I condemn the ultranationalists and ultra-Orthodox who would like to colonize Gaza. I condemn any soldier who has deliberately targeted a civilian for no military purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/704 "2024-05-29T03:45:12Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Now back to my question. so everything the IDF have done in Gaza (apart from killing a handful of aid workers) is just fine? Killing civilians is never “just fine”; the deaths of noncombatants are always a tragedy. Israel is making enormous efforts to minimize those civilian casualties. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/705 "2024-05-29T03:51:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Israel is making enormous efforts to minimize those civilian casualties. …this is a lie. > **[‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza](https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/)** > > The Israeli army has marked tens of thousands of Gazans as suspects for assassination, using an AI targeting system with little human oversight and a permissive policy for casualties, +972 and Local Call reveal. > [@+972 Magazine](#): > > Moreover, the Israeli army systematically attacked the targeted individuals while they were in their homes — usually at night while their whole families were present — rather than during the course of military activity. According to the sources, this was because, from what they regarded as an intelligence standpoint, it was easier to locate the individuals in their private houses. Additional automated systems, including one called “Where’s Daddy?” also revealed here for the first time, were used specifically to track the targeted individuals and carry out bombings when they had entered their family’s residences. > [@](#): > > During the early stages of the war, the army gave sweeping approval for officers to adopt Lavender’s kill lists, with no requirement to thoroughly check why the machine made those choices or to examine the raw intelligence data on which they were based. One source stated that human personnel often served only as a “rubber stamp” for the machine’s decisions, adding that, normally, they would personally devote only about “20 seconds” to each target before authorizing a bombing — just to make sure the Lavender-marked target is male. This was despite knowing that the system makes what are regarded as “errors” in approximately 10 percent of cases, and is known to occasionally mark individuals who have merely a loose connection to militant groups, or no connection at all. Gaza has been under siege for seven months. They’ve destroyed the healthcare system, and forcibly displaced over a million people, destroyed their homes, their schools, their places of worship. “Making enormous efforts to minimize those civilian casualties” my arse. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/706 "2024-05-29T04:01:58Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Gaza has been under siege for seven months. Yeah, that’s called a war. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > They’ve destroyed the healthcare system, and forcibly displaced over a million people, destroyed their homes, their schools, their places of worship. That’s what happens when your government is a terrorist group whose forces operate out of all of these places. Which you will now deny, because you’re Al Qassam Shitpost Brigade’s finest champion. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/707 "2024-05-29T04:05:09Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > They’ve destroyed the healthcare system, and forcibly displaced over a million people, destroyed their homes, their schools, their places of worship. I notice you didn’t condemn Hamas for operating out of hospitals, schools, places of worship, or homes. Probably because you keep denying it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/708 "2024-05-29T04:17:01Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Yeah, that’s called a war. …its called a siege, and its a warcrime. > [@Babale](#): > > That’s what happens when your government is a terrorist group whose forces operate out of all of these places. Its what happens when Isreal decides to conduct a genocidal campaign. > [@Babale](#): > > Which you will now deny, because you’re Al Qassam Shitpost Brigade’s finest champion. Doesn’t this get tired? Is this really all you’ve got left? Lame. > [@Babale](#): > > I notice you didn’t condemn Hamas for operating out of hospitals, schools, places of worship, or homes. Probably because you keep denying it happens. If you had any evidence that would support the level of destruction that we’ve seen then I would be condemning it. But you don’t have it. Which is why you don’t show it. Nor has the IDF. Because it doesn’t exist. A handful of empty tunnels filmed last year doesn’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/709 "2024-05-29T11:59:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So then, if it were demonstrated that at least some IDF members are indeed “deliberately targeting” civilians, then that would be war crimes and completely unacceptable? And if Israeli leadership isn’t doing enough to stop it, then they would be complicit in war crimes? Yeah but not genocide > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There are millions of Gazans (and other Palestinians). The vast majority had absolutely nothing to do with the Oct 7th attacks. There are millions of Palestinians who will never recognise the state of Israel amd of whom give tacit approval of the October 7th attacks, downplaying the Palestnians will to continue the conflict is the reason why calling for a ceasefire is utterly bizarre. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why are you casting blame on millions of men, women, and children, the vast majority of whom have done nothing wrong? When you do this, repeatedly, it leads me to believe that you are a bigot, whether you realize or not. Their leadership, which was voted by them in 2006, is in part representative of their values, I don’t hear much sympathy for the German civilians carpet bombed by the Allies to bring and end to a war they themselves initiated, why do you put such a double standard on the Palestinians who show no compunction to live in peace with Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/710 "2024-05-29T12:14:03Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …and you think in the last seven months, where IDF soldier daily share on Facebook and TikTok video of them cheering as they blow up Mosques and apartment blocks, bulldoze hospitals, shoot up schools, burn down libraries, wear [women’s lingerie](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Lk_vZMVjvPU?app=desktop), that they would have shown some evidence that Hamas had compromised the entire civilian infrastructure to its own benefit? > > Because the burden is on _them_. [Palestinian tunnel network](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_tunnel_warfare_in_the_Gaza_Strip) > The tunnel system runs beneath many Gazan towns and cities, such as Khan Yunis, Jabalia and the Shati refugee camp > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I’ll take their word over yours. It’s not my word that they’re not comitting genocide it’s the general consensus of the EU US and UN otherwise the ICC would have already come to that conclusion. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > From the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention wiki page: Wow so they got the Yazidi one right, and the Gaza one wrong and jumped on the genocide bandwagon. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I have no idea, and at this point it doesn’t even matter. When civilians are continuously bombed, I’m not going to judge them in the moment for their political opinions, whatever they are. Right now Gazan civilians have virtually no power to do anything at all – including take on Hamas. Just like those poor Germans who were bombed in WWII ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/711 "2024-05-29T12:37:37Z")
So a bigot it is, then. Judging millions not based on anything the vast majority have actually done, but based on their ethnicity. WWII was so different there’s no comparison - actual nation states, for one thing. For another - we weren’t doing what the German government wanted, unlike this war. Netanyahu might as well be a member of Hamas, as much as he’s done their bidding for the last few decades. I’ll keep this in mind for future discussions. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/712 "2024-05-29T12:51:32Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Palestinian tunnel network …I’m asking for evidence to show that Hamas had compromised the _entire_ civilian infrastructure to its own benefit. A Wikipedia article that is mostly historical context isn’t that. Not at all. Israel has had _seven months_ to document the extent that Hamas has “compromised the entire civilian infrastructure.” They haven’t done it because they can’t. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > It’s not my word that they’re not comitting genocide it’s the general consensus of the EU US and UN otherwise the ICC would have already come to that conclusion. It certainly isn’t the general consensus for the UN, and this isn’t how the ICC actually works. But you’ve been told this already. Many, many times. So I guess you are just trolling now. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Wow so they got the Yazidi one right, and the Gaza one wrong and jumped on the genocide bandwagon. > [@Website](#): > > ##### Elisa von Joeden-Forgey, PhD > > Co-Founder and Executive Director > > Former Endowed Chair in Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Keene State College, Keene, NH, USA and Dr. Marsha Raticoff Grossman Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Stockton University, NJ, USA. Expert in genocide, gender, prevention, and the history of colonialism. > > … > > # Executive Committee > > ##### Elisa von Joeden-Forgey, PhD > > Co-Founder and Executive Director > > Former Endowed Chair in Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Keene State College, Keene, NH, USA and Dr. Marsha Raticoff Grossman Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Stockton University, NJ, USA. Expert in genocide, gender, prevention, and the history of colonialism. BA in History, Columbia University, New York City; MA, PhD in History, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia. > > (On Leave) > > ##### Léa Périllat > > Director of Operations > > Léa is the Program Manager of the LIGP. She is currently pursuing a MA Degree in Human Rights and Humanitarian Action at Sciences Po Paris with minors in International Humanitarian Law and Diplomacy > > … > > ##### Juan Giarrizzo > > Partner, OSINT practitioner and CFT competitor > > Juan Giarrizzo is a Technical Manager, OSINT practitioner and CTF competitor, with a passion for Information Security. He has been involved in several cases as principal OSINT investigator, for evidence verification and preservation in human rights violation cases. > > … > > ##### James Ekin > > Affiliated Scholar > > James is a member of the Secretariat to the Hazara All Party Parliamentary Group and is the Law and Policy Director at Yet Again UK, and has experience working on Afghan resettlement since the fall of Kabul and on the full-scale invasion of Ukraine since it’s inception. > **[Leadership Team | Lemkin Institute](https://www.lemkininstitute.com/leadership-team)** > > Learn about our leadership team. Because, you know, these aren’t just a bunch of randos on the internet. Here’s Raz Segal, an Israeli historian residing in the United States who is Associate Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies and Endowed Professor in the Study of Modern Genocide. > [@](#): > > # A Textbook Case of Genocide > > … > Indeed, Israel’s genocidal assault on Gaza is quite explicit, open, and unashamed. Perpetrators of genocide usually do not express their intentions so clearly, though there are exceptions. In the early 20th century, for example, German colonial occupiers perpetrated a genocide in response to an uprising by the Indigenous Herero and Nama populations in southwest Africa. In 1904, General Lothar von Trotha, the German military commander, issued an “extermination order,” justified by the rationale of a “race war.” By 1908, the German authorities had murdered 10,000 Nama, and had achieved their stated goal of “destroying the Herero,” killing 65,000 Herero, 80% of the population. Gallant’s orders on October 9th were no less explicit. Israel’s goal is to destroy the Palestinians of Gaza. And those of us watching around the world are derelict in our responsibility to prevent them from doing so. > **[A Textbook Case of Genocide](https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide)** > > Israel has been explicit about what it’s carrying out in Gaza. Why isn’t the world listening? You can respectfully disagree as much as you like, but claiming they’ve “jumped on the genocide bandwagon” is a dick move. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/713 "2024-05-29T13:23:07Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > There are millions of Palestinians who will never recognise the state of Israel amd of whom give tacit approval of the October 7th attacks, downplaying the Palestnians will to continue the conflict is the reason why calling for a ceasefire is utterly bizarre. It’s a lot worse than _bizarre_ - it’s downright _sinister_. So long as the international community acts like this, hollering and hooting about genocide and Palestine being free from the river to the sea and pretending like a UN Resolution that condemns Israel for the 19474850th time will give the Palestinians the whole land, with right of return. As long as this is what the international community implicitly tells Palestinians that this is what they deserve, they would have to be _stupid_ to _ever_ accept a two state solution. Which is why, again and again, when offered 67 borders but no right of return, the Palestinians have rejected our offers. Why take half the pie when half the world is screeching that making you share is a genocide and an apartheid? But of course, that fact won’t stop thpse who give 0 fucks about Palestinians but view the West as the root of all Evil. Who cares if the Palestinians spend another 50 years fighting Israel instead of building a separate state? In fact, that’s a _good_ thing, because it opposes _Imperialism_! Anyone who _actually_ cares about Palestinian lives should be pushing for the elimination of Hamas and the establishment of a Palestinian state. Anything else is just using the Palestinians as a prop - no, actually, as _ammunition_ - in an “anti-Imperialist” struggle. This is made obvious by the behavior of the UNRWA. God forbid someone of Palestinian descent builds a happy life outside of Palestine; how could we use their life as ammunition against the Big and Little Satans? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/714 "2024-05-29T13:31:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For another - we weren’t doing what the German government wanted, unlike this war. Netanyahu might as well be a member of Hamas, as much as he’s done their bidding for the last few decades. See, you _say_ this, but then you _also_ say that Israel should accept the ceasefire option where Hamas returns as many bodies as it feels like in exchange for thousands of terrorists being released, and Israel leaves Gaza indefinitely. That’s _precisely_ what Hamas is asking for, so it’s a bit odd to me that you are making declarations about not doing exactly what Hamas wants. What Hamas wants is to stay in power. The only way not to give them that is to put someone else in charge instead, and assist the new leaders long enough to ensure their government sticks. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/715 "2024-05-29T13:36:19Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Anyone who _actually_ cares about Palestinian lives …anyone who actually cares about Palestinian lives would be calling for Israel to stop killing Palestinians, to call for a ceasefire, to open the borders and to end the siege, to allow humanitarian agencies to flood the country with aid and shelter and food and medical supplies, if anyone who actually cared about Palestinians they would be flying in field hospitals from around the world. > [@Babale](#): > > This is made obvious by the behavior of the UNRWA. And now we find out you are an anti-UNRWA conspiracy nut. What a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/716 "2024-05-29T14:05:14Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > if anyone who actually cared about Palestinians they would be flying in field hospitals from around the world. Lile the eight that the IDF helped to set up around Gaza, right? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And now we find out you are an anti-UNRWA conspiracy nut > **[UNRWA Has Changed the Definition of Refugee](https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/17/unrwa-has-changed-the-definition-of-refugee/)** > > The U.N.'s agency for Palestinians should stop playing word games and do its job. You’re a funny one, Banquet Bear. You literally cannot admit to _any_ of the structural issues or roadblocks on the Palestinian side that prevent peace. It’s all Israel and Netanyahu. I’ll fully admit that Netanyahu isn’t working towards peace. But guess what? Netanyahu _wasn’t elected in a vacuum_. Issues like the UNRWA ensuring that as many people remain embroiled in the conflict as possible or Palestinian intansigence on the Right of Return idea have destroyed the credibility of the Israeli left when it comes to the peace process. Not to mention the Second Intifada breaking out when a peace deal failed precisely because of Palestinians insisting on a Right of Return. It really does look like Oct 7th destroyed Netanyahu’s credibility, too. This is the _perfect_ opportunity for the Israeli left to take the reins again and start stirring us towards peace. But for that to have a snowball’s chance in hell of working out, the Palestinian side also needs to be willing to come to the table, and that means _actually_ coming to the table with offers that Israel can accept. My big worry is that any moderate Palestinian wiling to work on a two state solution is going to be easily discredited by anyone making maximalist demands in the international community amplifies those maximalist demands. Which is why I am against Tankies shouting about Palestine being free from the river to the sea, or chanting “we don’t want no two states” or “globalize the Intifada”. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/717 "2024-05-29T14:10:51Z")
Serious question, and a bit a of a diversion. Is the extension of Palestinian refugee status all that different from the Jewish right of return to Israel? Perhaps Israel would be in a better place if they didn’t accept every right wing nut job who just happens to be Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/718 "2024-05-29T14:11:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > As long as this is what the international community implicitly tells Palestinians that this is what they deserve, they would have to be _stupid_ to _ever_ accept a two state solution. Which is why, again and again, when offered 67 borders but no right of return, the Palestinians have rejected our offers. Why take half the pie when half the world is screeching that making you share is a genocide and an apartheid? The Palestinian Authority offered a deal at Camp David that gave them roughly 97% of West Bank territories. Feel free to enlighten me if I’m wrong but AFAIK Israel has never offered 67 borders since. And at any rate do you really think it makes sense that Palestinians are thinking “well Israel currently controls a significant portion of my territory, but I heard some people at the UN or something make nonbinding declarations that I should have the right to land in Israel. That second thing seems more relevant to my life.” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/719 "2024-05-29T14:13:27Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Serious question, and a bit a of a diversion. Is the extension of Palestinian refugee status all that different from the Jewish right of return to Israel? If Palestinians have their own state, they can let in anyone they want to. That’s not an issue at all. The problem is a right of return _to Israel_. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/720 "2024-05-29T14:16:53Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > The Palestinian Authority offered a deal at Camp David that gave them roughly 97% of West Bank territories. Feel free to enlighten me if I’m wrong but AFAIK Israel has never offered 67 borders since. _With_ Right of Return to Israel itself. Which is untenable. It’s a way of backdooring a one state solution. > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > AFAIK Israel has never offered 67 borders since. Israel offered them 96+% of the West Bank in 2008. That was the last time either side was at the table. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=37)