# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/721 "2024-05-29T14:17:42Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Lile the eight that the IDF helped to set up around Gaza, right? …eight field hospitals isn’t enough to cope with the devastation of the Gazan healthcare system. Surely you know this. > [@Babale](#): > > You’re a funny one, Banquet Bear. From the article: > [@FP](#): > > In 1965, UNRWA changed the eligibility requirements to be a Palestinian refugee to include third-generation descendants, and in 1982, it extended it again, to include all descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, regardless of whether they had been granted citizenship elsewhere. This classification process is inconsistent with how all other refugees in the world are classified, including the definition used by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the laws concerning refugees in the United States. This is simply a lie. I’ve shown to you before this is a lie. I’ve provided cites and everything. Yet here you are again, sharing a link to an outdated 2018 opinion piece that is predicated on a _lie_ and expect us to think that this is somehow relevant. > [@UNRWA](#): > > Is the transfer of refugee status to descendants unique to UNRWA? > > No. Under international law and the principle of family unity, the children of refugees and their descendants are also considered refugees until a durable solution is found. [As stated by the United Nations](https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/refugees),this principle applies to all refugees and both UNRWA and UNHCR have recognized descendants as refugees on this basis. > > In line with this, the [UN General Assembly annual resolutions on UNRWA operations](https://undocs.org/A/74/409) continue since the 1950s to require the Agency to deliver its services for the protection and assistance of Palestine refugees, including descendants. > > Palestine refugees are not distinct from other refugees in protracted refugee situations such as those from Afghanistan or Somalia, where there are multiple generations of refugees, registered by UNHCR as refugees and supported as such. Protracted refugee situations are the result of the failure to find political solutions to their underlying political crises. > > It is important to note that registration with UNRWA does not afford refugee status under the 1951 Geneva Convention, but provides services and assistance based on a definition that sets out eligibility for receipt of such services. [https://www.unrwa.org/transfer-refugee-status-descendants-unique-unrwa-0](https://www.unrwa.org/transfer-refugee-status-descendants-unique-unrwa-0) > [@Babale](#): > > My big worry is that any moderate Palestinian wiling to work on a two state solution There _isn’t going to be_ a two-state solution. It isn’t just Gaza. Its whats happening on the West Bank. Gazans will either escape from Gaza, live under a brutal occupation, or they will die. On the West Bank Israel will keep on confiscating land until there is no where else for the Palestinians to go. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/722 "2024-05-29T14:22:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Israel offered them 96+% of the West Bank in 2008. That was the last time either side was at the table. 96% of 67 borders is not 67 borders. This confirms what I thought that since Camp David it’s been about the Palestinians not accepting _less_ than an Israeli withdrawal to internationally recognized territory. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/723 "2024-05-29T14:24:50Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > And at any rate do you really think it makes sense that Palestinians are thinking “well Israel currently controls a significant portion of my territory, but I heard some people at the UN or something make nonbinding declarations that I should have the right to land in Israel. That second thing seems more relevant to my life.” It is one of multiple factors behind the Palestinian rejection of a two state solution, of course it is. From 47 to 79 the Palestinians had a bunch of surrounding Arab countries saying “don’t make peace, one of these days we will wipe out Israel and give all the land to you guys”. Since then, those Arab states have made peace with Israel. In a sane world, Palestinians would realize at this point that they aren’t ever getting rid of the Jews, and agree to a two state solution. But instead, with international cheerleading and clandestine support from Iran, they are more determined for a single state Palestine from the river to the sea than ever. Explain to me how that makes sense? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/724 "2024-05-29T14:30:36Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > 96% of 67 borders is not 67 borders. Sure, but there were land swaps to make up for it (Israeli territory from beyond the green line traded in exchange for the 4% we are talking about). > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > This confirms what I thought that since Camp David it’s been about the Palestinians not accepting _less_ than an Israeli withdrawal to internationally recognized territory. Sucks to suck. You can’t say “ok, 1947, we are going to wipe you off the map. Oh no, it didn’t work! Ok, 1967, NOW we will wipe you off the map. Oh no, it didn’t work! OK, 1973, now we will _REALLY_ wipe you off the map! Oh no, we failed _again!_ OK, Intifada! That didn’t work? OK, Intifada 2.0, now with extra suicide bombings! Oh, that didn’t work either? So, 67 borders, we cool, right?” If you think Intifadas and Oct 7ths are justified over 4% of the land (even though you get other land to make up for it), then frankly, we are operating from such divergent frameworks that I don’t know we will _ever_ see eye to eye. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/725 "2024-05-29T14:33:02Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > This confirms what I thought that since Camp David it’s been about the Palestinians not accepting _less_ than an Israeli withdrawal to internationally recognized territory. I’m sure that strategy will pay off anytime now. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/726 "2024-05-29T14:39:21Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > > > This confirms what I thought that since Camp David it’s been about the Palestinians not accepting _less_ than an Israeli withdrawal to internationally recognized territory. > > I’m sure that strategy will pay off anytime now When you lose a war, you tend to get less than you would have had if you agreed not to fight the war to begin with. That’s kinda Diplomacy 101. _Obviously_ - that’s how states disincentivize each other from fighting wars at every petty disagreement. If Israel had lost the Yom Kippur war, do you think the terms that the victorious Arab states would have imposed on Israel would have been “a return to 67 borders”? (Not _you_ as in @Cheesesteak, I mean the general “you”). ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/727 "2024-05-29T14:41:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > From 47 to 79 the Palestinians had a bunch of surrounding Arab countries saying “don’t make peace, one of these days we will wipe out Israel and give all the land to you guys”. > > Since then, those Arab states have made peace with Israel. > > In a sane world, Palestinians would realize at this point that they aren’t ever getting rid of the Jews, and agree to a two state solution. But instead, with international cheerleading and clandestine support from Iran, they are more determined for a single state Palestine from the river to the sea than ever. > > Explain to me how that makes sense? Obviously it doesn’t, which is why I don’t think this is the reason for Palestinian views on the two-state solution. BTW, I presume this is about public opinion on the matter, since Fatah supports the 67 borders and Hamas believes what they do because they’re religious extremists. I think Palestinians have declined in support of the two-state solution for similar reasons to Israelis – we’re now so long from the leadership making any progress in talks, at this point Israeli withdrawal would be a much more significant undertaking than it was in the 90’s due to how much settlements have expanded and its easy to see why members of the public distrust an idea that has essentially made negative progress over the past 2 decades. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/728 "2024-05-29T14:44:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > When you lose a war, you tend to get less than you would have had if you agreed not to fight the war to begin with. That’s kinda Diplomacy 101. _Obviously_ - that’s how states disincentivize each other from fighting wars at every petty disagreement. > > If Israel had lost the Yom Kippur war, do you think the terms that the victorious Arab states would have imposed on Israel would have been “a return to 67 borders”? (Not _you_ as in @Cheesesteak, I mean the general “you”). No idea, but it’s hard to claim that Palestinian leaders reject the 67 borders when they’re only ever offered less than the 67 borders. Do I think Palestinian leaders should take what they can get from the obviously more powerful Isreal? Yes. Does the fact that they disagree with me mean they would never accept anything other than wiping Israel off the map? No. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/729 "2024-05-29T14:44:52Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > 96% of 67 borders is not 67 borders. The Israelis aren’t willing to negotiate away East Jerusalem. [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_of_Jerusalem#Islamization_of_Jerusalem_under_Jordanian_rule) are a few reasons why. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/730 "2024-05-29T14:47:10Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > The Israelis aren’t willing to negotiate away East Jerusalem. > [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_of_Jerusalem#Islamization_of_Jerusalem_under_Jordanian_rule) are a few reasons why. Sorry to be a broken record, but I’m not passing any judgments on whether Israel is in the right or wrong for not offering a full disengagement from the West Bank. I’m saying people who criticize Palestinians for not accepting the 67 borders are wrong, because they aren’t offered the 67 borders. If you want to criticize them for not accepting a deal where some level of occupation in the West Bank occurs east of the 67 borders, criticize them for that. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/731 "2024-05-29T14:48:50Z")
Oh sure, I get that part. I was thinking more of the “we’ll let anyone in whose family may have once lived here” idea. Has anyone besides Myer Lansky been denied? Maybe someone could find some scrolls showing that Antarctica is the true holy land, and the zealots in both sides can kill each other there for a change. Sadly, to paraphrase you from above, there are too many people on both sides operating from such divergent frameworks that I don’t know they will ever see eye to eye. Eye for an eye, on the other hand, they seem to have figured out ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/732 "2024-05-29T14:49:10Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > No idea, but it’s hard to claim that Palestinian leaders reject the 67 borders when they’re only ever offered less than the 67 borders. The problem is maximalists. Saying 94% of the land plus land you weren’t ‘entitled’ to to begin with isn’t enough is maximalism. Israel is never offering a 100% return to 67 borders. The vast majority of the settlements, and all of the ones deep into Gaza, can and should be evicted; but there are a handful of places where a city has basically grown over the border, and that can only be accounted for with land swaps. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/733 "2024-05-29T14:50:39Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > The Israelis aren’t willing to negotiate away East Jerusalem. Much of East Jerusalem - the parts that didn’t have Jewish majority populations at the time of Olmert’s offer - _were_ on the table. And much of the old city/the religious sites would have come under international management. East Jerusalem would have been the capital of the Palestinian state. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/734 "2024-05-29T14:52:12Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Israel is never offering a 100% return to 67 borders. So you agree with me. I think clarifying this is important, because if Palestinian leaders reject a straight-up, you get a complete end to the occupation, there’s no real way to explain that other than they actually do want Israeli territory. If there are proposals that have practical considerations and allow Israel to maintain occupation in some areas and Palestinian leaders reject them, that is more indicative of them not agreeing that those particulars were an acceptable compromise. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/735 "2024-05-29T14:55:06Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > If there are proposals that have practical considerations and allow Israel to maintain occupation in some areas and Palestinian leaders reject them, that is more indicative of them not agreeing that those particulars were an acceptable compromise. Then why did they always walk away while talking about a right of return\* rather than attempting to negotiate over the 4% Israel wanted to keep or the 4% Israel was offering in exchange? One thing they could say is “the 4% you are giving us sucks, we want better land or more of it”. Another thing they could say is “parts of the 4% you are taking are too important, we want to keep those”. They did neither. They said “right of return” and walked away. \*again, to Israel proper. If they want to let in the entire population of China once there is a Palestine, that’s none of Israel’s business. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/736 "2024-05-29T15:06:09Z")
In the 2008 proposal you cited earlier, Abbas named the amount of West Bank Israel would be taking as the reason for the rejection. > **[PA rejects Olmert's offer to withdraw from 93% of West Bank](https://web.archive.org/web/20180102174003/https://www.haaretz.com/news/pa-rejects-olmert-s-offer-to-withdraw-from-93-of-west-bank-1.251578)** > > Abbas rep.: Proposal a 'waste of time'; PM intent on reaching deal during his remaining time in office. > [@](#): > > “The Israeli proposal is not acceptable,” Abbas’s spokesman said. “The Palestinian side will only accept a Palestinian state with territorial continuity, with holy Jerusalem as its capital, without settlements, and on the June 4, 1967 boundaries.” > [@](#): > > Compared to previous Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, the Olmert proposal falls between the one then prime minister Barak presented to Yasser Arafat at Camp David in July 2000 and the one he offered at Taba in January 2001. The Palestinian proposal is similar to the ones offered during the Arafat years, which would have allowed Israel to annex only a few settlements, along with their access roads - a proposal nicknamed “balloons and strings.” All these Palestinian proposals ruled out allowing Israel to retain the settlement blocs. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/737 "2024-05-29T15:10:54Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > See, you _say_ this, but then you _also_ say that Israel should accept the ceasefire option where Hamas returns as many bodies as it feels like in exchange for thousands of terrorists being released, and Israel leaves Gaza indefinitely. I haven’t said this. > [@](#): > > What Hamas wants is to stay in power. The only way not to give them that is to put someone else in charge instead, and assist the new leaders long enough to ensure their government sticks. I don’t think what Israel is doing now is accomplishing this. I don’t think they’re accomplishing anything, really, except for carnage. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/738 "2024-05-29T15:22:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I haven’t said this. I thought that you were one of the people who said Israel should ceasefire now, which I assume means accepting the ceasefire on the terms currently presented by Hamas (or worse, a unilateral ceasefire). If I am mistaken about that, I apologize. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think what Israel is doing now is accomplishing this. I don’t think they’re accomplishing anything, really, except for carnage. Obviously, I disagree. I think Israel is dismantling Hamas in the only way it can be tackled. The question is what will happen once Hamas has been knocked down. The only way to knock it _out_ is to replace it. Netanyahu doesn’t have a plan for this second stage; I hope his war cabinet either forces him to implement one or (at this point the preferable option) topples the government. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/739 "2024-05-29T15:25:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So a bigot it is, then. Judging millions not based on anything the vast majority have actually done, but based on their ethnicity. They by a majority, supported the October 7th attacks and support the destruction of Israel. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > WWII was so different there’s no comparison - actual nation states, for one thing. For another - we weren’t doing what the German government wanted, unlike this war. Netanyahu might as well be a member of Hamas, as much as he’s done their bidding for the last few decades. The point I’m making is that Hamas doesn’t operate in a vacuum, there has to be some measure of popular support for them to have such a hold on the population, just like Germans when the Nazis were in charge, and I find it jarring that Hamas can literally rape and butcher civilians without much pushback, yet Israel taking the fight back to Hamas own territory is met with outrage. Hamas started the war, not Israel. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/740 "2024-05-29T15:36:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Or maybe because Hamas was fighting out of those locations? I’ve asked this before and i haven’t seen a good answer. If Hamas is mostly guys with guns, how does destroying the structure they happen to be standing in right now make any difference? I mean, i get that you might take down a building while people are actively standing in it and shooting. But > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You mean controlled demolitions of entire apartment blocks? Where IDF soldiers are able to freely and safely walk around and plant explosives, then get to a safe distance so they can get a big explosion so they can share it on TikTok? How can this be if any military value? > [@Babale](#): > > Entire apartment blocks get used by Hamas to launch their war against Israel, so yes, entire apartment blocks (and the massive tunnel networks unnderneath them). > > Anyways, the mass murder of unoccupied buildings would be Dormicide, not Genocide. It was used yesterday. Tomorrow, they will launch their war from the pile of rubble, instead. I just don’t see how this helps Israel. I do see how it helps Hamas. Anyone whose home is blown up will move a couple of points from the positive/neutral side of the scale towards “hates Israel with all his heart”. > [@Babale](#): > > If you honestly think Israel is trying to ethnically cleanse Gaza, I guess I have nothing else to say to you. I didn’t think that in October, or November. I do now. Why the massive destruction? Why herd people back and forth while destroying their homes, livelihoods, hospitals, mosques, and other physical manifestations of culture? > [@Smapti](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > Says who? When you get _some_ food but not enough, it can take months. > > Well, Banquet\_Bear says there hasn’t been any food for months and there isn’t any food getting in. Maybe you should take it up with him. BB has said that there is not enough food in Gaza. Everyone knows that SOME food is getting in. > [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Hamas needs to be gone for a lasting peace with a two state solution and the Palestinian and Israel leadership and people all have to want it. How does any of the activity of the IDF lead to “Hamas is gone”? It seems to me that it leads to “nearly every surviving Palestinian joins in Hamas’ goals of destroying as much of Israel as they can.” > [@Babale](#): > > I notice you didn’t condemn Hamas for operating out of hospitals, schools, places of worship, or homes I’m happy to condemn that. And yes, it obviously happens. And i repeat, destroying those places HELPS Hamas, it doesn’t hurt Hamas. Because they can strike from literally anywhere. They don’t really depend on a big built war machine. The october 7th pogrom didn’t use bombs, or any built structure. So anything that turns the population towards Hamas helps Hamas more than destroying the place they happen to have been lobbing bombs from yesterday hurts it. Anyway, at this point i think there is no hope of peace. That’s obviously what Hamas wants. They won. I mostly hope they don’t take down Israel with them. But that looks a hell of a lot more likely today than it did on October 8th. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=38)