# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2024, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/841 "2024-06-01T17:54:08Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I’m not going to comment on the meaning of Amalek as it relates to the current situation, since I frankly don’t know enough about how the term is generally used to do so, but I have to say that that opinion piece is one of the most poorly reasoned articles I’ve ever read. Your post is a cool example of a key difference between Judaism and Christianity - you’re doing it exactly right! You’re inadvertently practicing the way Jewish scholars interact with the material. Flesh your analysis out a little more by exploring the implications of your analysis on the rest of the chapter, and you are halfway to writing your own Midrash 😉 ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2024, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/842 "2024-06-01T18:59:58Z")
Or maybe if people didn’t waste their time arguing the minute details of ridiculous mythical stories, but instead focused on what was happening in the real world today there may be a real solution to real problems Who the fuck cares who killed who in a book? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2024, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/843 "2024-06-01T21:45:04Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > A few. That’s an incredibly embarrassing piece of the Bible. It’s ugly enough that i don’t like celebrating Purim, honestly. > > Wait… what? Purim? > > Haman is described as an “Agagite” and the two interpretations of that are that he hated Jewish people like Agag, or that he is somehow descended from Agag (Jewish canon isn’t always consistent, so the fact that it would have been impossible for Agag to have any descendants if he actually existed is brushed off). It’s the perfect example of what I mentioned earlier - that for an extremely long time now, the story of Amalek is the story of figuratively linked people who wanted to wipe out the Jewish people, not the story of people who the Jewish people want to wipe out. You’ll note that the story does not end with the Persians being destroyed. Yes, purim. When we read the book of Esther. And after Esther and Mordecai gain the favor of the king of Persia, he gives the Israelites permission to kill all of Haman’s clan. They kill 500 of Haman’s relatives the first day, and another 300 the second day, and impale Haman’s ten sons on stakes, because Haman plotted to destroy the Israelites. It’s the “genocide at the end of the book”. (Chapter 9 of the book of Esther, for anyone not familiar with the story.) And yes, Haman, who plotted to kill the Jews is identified by modern Jews as an Amalekite because he tried to destroy the Jews. And so, every year, we celebrate that we weren’t destroyed, and also, just incidentally, we celebrate the murder of all of Haman’s relatives. And that’s why i don’t usually celebrate Purim. Because i find that little genocide disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/844 "2024-06-02T03:49:56Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And so, every year, we celebrate that we weren’t destroyed, and also, just incidentally, we celebrate the murder of all of Haman’s relatives. > > And that’s why i don’t usually celebrate Purim. Because i find that little genocide disturbing. Yeah, I’ve always had problems with that myself. I get that it’s very easy to blur the boundary between “celebrating that our enemies didn’t succeed in destroying us” and “celebrating that we destroyed our enemies”, and the Book of Esther is a product of its historical time and circumstances. But it still feels weird to be cheering about all that one-sided slaughter, even if it’s committed by people who narrowly escaped being slaughtered themselves. (And let’s not even get into the issue of the whole train of events kicking off because the king wanted Queen Vashti to come out and be ogled by all the dudes at his banquet, and she wouldn’t do it, so he went trawling for beautiful young virgins to restock his harem, one of whom was Esther. Not to mention the bunches of non-Jewish people at the end of the book converting to Judaism because they were afraid of the Jews, and so on. Of course you can’t judge historical texts by modern standards, but let’s just say there’s a whole lot about that story that doesn’t stand up very well to being recited verbatim as part of a modern celebration.) [This guy writing last March says it better than I could,](https://www.labshul.org/please-silence-your-noise-makers-this-purim-for-peace/) about both historical and modern contexts. > [@](#): > > Purim developed as a fantasy of power and authority, created by and for defenseless minorities struggling to survive in hostile diasporas. Whether the Esther story is history or myth, it is the only biblical book taking place entirely inside a Persian world, where Jews can only dream of power. > > But that is no longer the case. > > My Purim Wake up happened in 1994, when I was in my mid 20’s, living in Jerusalem. That morning we woke up to the terrible news of the massacre in Hebron. Baruch Goldstein, an Israeli Jewish settler, Brooklyn born, killed 29 Muslim Palestinians and wounded more than 100, while they were praying at the Cave of the Ancestors in Hebron. In his suicide note he justified his vile act as an echo of Esther’s Scroll, chanted that morning in his synagogue, in which the Persian Jews, relieved to be rescued from annihilation, killed 75,000 Persians in a riot of rage and revenge, sometimes portrayed as self-defense. He justified the killing of Amalek – Haman’s ancestor, the people whose very memory the Torah instructs us to annihilate. Purim has never been the same for me, and for many others, ever since. > > Goldestein was condemned by most Jewish leaders but his grave in Hebron is a popular pilgrimage site for many Jews who worship his racist zealotry. Until recently, Israel’s current Minister of National Defense proudly displayed a photo of this terrorist on his office wall. > > When 400 Jewish settlers rioted in the Palestinian village of Hawara last week in revenge for the malicious murder of two Jewish brothers by a Palestinian gunman from that village, killing a man, wounding many, burning homes and cars, while pausing to pray the evening prayer – they had Goldstein as a role model for religiously inspired revenge. > > And just this past weekend the same groups of Jewish settlers, no longer fundamentalist fringe, now backed by government officials, specifically cited Haman and Amalek as they called on people to continue the attack on Hawara. ---
**Author:** ![P91noX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@P91noX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P91noX)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/845 "2024-06-02T04:23:04Z")
I had about a decade from age 15 to 25 that I stopped attending synagogue. My family isn’t religious but we engaged as a matter of cultural preservation/continuation. When I started going to my campus Chabad (for the same reason), I remember being struck specifically by how jarring the story of Purim is when you’re not conditioned to cheering and jeering at the annihilation of Haman and his tribe. Count me as another Jew who’s uncomfortable, if not with the story (which as **Kimtsu** said is a product of its historical time), then at least with the lack of nuance in the way it was discussed at my service. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/846 "2024-06-02T04:47:03Z")
I do sometimes make hamantoschen, though. Cookies are nice, even if the story is jarring. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/847 "2024-06-02T14:35:48Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > What I said is that it is not relevant to modern Judaism. And it isn’t - no more so than the bits about animal sacrifice or crowning a king. I’m seriously asking: When you say that, is it true for all Judaism, or is what you’re saying only applicable to the more modern/reform aspects? (Apologies, I don’t know all the appropriate terms) Because I get the sense that there’s no small number of ultra-conservative/Haredi/Whatever the right name is who just might interpret it exactly as written. But if that’s not right I’m open to that. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/848 "2024-06-02T14:53:49Z")
I reiterate, I don’t know if working out the “correct” interpretation of such stories, or whether they exist at all, matters. If some psycho reads them and then hits the West Bank like a U.S. school shooter, the odds are he would have done, or been told to do, precisely the same thing had he read the Financial Times that morning instead. I do not like organized religion, but there is no point in a political context to go looking for flaws in Judaism, Islam, Buddhism themselves. If someone is weaponizing religion as one of the tools to stir up their particular collection of psychos, Nazis, and hoi polloi, then we can blame them (as well as the people who listen to them; there is no excuse). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/849 "2024-06-02T15:14:35Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > I’m seriously asking: > When you say that, is it true for all Judaism, or is what you’re saying only applicable to the more modern/reform aspects? (Apologies, I don’t know all the appropriate terms) > > Because I get the sense that there’s no small number of ultra-conservative/Haredi/Whatever the right name is who just might interpret it exactly as written. But if that’s not right I’m open to that. The links I posted earlier were from Chabad, which _is_ a Haredi movement. Judaism doesn’t map 1:1 with Christianity. More intense Jews aren’t _more literal_ because almost all types of Judaism, no matter how strict, look at both the Written Torah and the Oral Torah as key aspects of God’s message. There are definitely Jews who are even crazier than Haradi Jews - like the Jews who hate Israel because they think a true Jewish state (they mean “kingdom”) can only happen when the Messiah comes back and the temple is rebuilt, and therefore anything else that _looks like_ a Jewish state is an evil facsimile. Or the very extremist Jewish people who don’t like Israel because the Jewish identity now has something to focus on and build around _other than_ strict religion, which they view as a bad thing. But both of these groups get there _through varying interpretation of the Oral Torah_, not by being more literal. And of course, there are Karaites, who believe _only in_ the written Torah. They are the Biblical literalists you are probably thinking of. They are also so far removed from all incarnations of mainstream Judaism (Rabbinic Judaism) and such a tiny minority (like 50,000 worldwide) that I wasn’t really taking them into account. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/850 "2024-06-02T16:31:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And of course, there are Karaites, who believe _only in_ the written Torah. They are the Biblical literalists you are probably thinking of. They are also so far removed from all incarnations of mainstream Judaism (Rabbinic Judaism) and such a tiny minority (like 50,000 worldwide) that I wasn’t really taking them into account. I want to second this. They exist, and they are totally irrelevant to almost all discussions, certainly to discussions of modern Israeli politics. They are considered heretics by mainstream Judaism, because the oral law is canonical to mainstream Judaism (from ultra Orthodox to Reform). And there aren’t very many of them. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/851 "2024-06-02T20:04:27Z")
IMHO if _any_ religious group (big, small, whatever) is relevant to modern politics then there is already a big problem. In that case it might matter, or seem to matter, what the local Supreme Cult Leader’s view on genocide is. Corrupt politicians are enough of a problem in and of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/852 "2024-06-02T21:09:10Z")
Okay, but how do you avoid it? Outlaw like minded people from voting as a bloc? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/853 "2024-06-05T21:00:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Exactly when is this mass starvation supposed to start happening? Best guess is sometime between a couple months ago and mid-July, if you want to stick to the official (and very strict) definition of famine. But it’s inconceivable to me that you would use the lack of data from Gaza as evidence to argue that people aren’t starving there. > The US-based famine early warning system network (Fews Net) said it was “possible, if not likely” that famine began in northern Gaza in April. Two UN organisations said more than 1 million people were “expected to face death and starvation” by mid-July. > > War complicates the collection of data that would confirm famine has taken hold. But focusing only on whether Gaza had passed the moment when extreme hunger tips into an official declaration of famine risked obscuring the extremely high toll that food shortages had taken on Palestinians already, both organisations said. > > “Regardless of whether or not the famine (IPC phase 5) thresholds have been definitively reached or exceeded, people are dying of hunger-related causes across Gaza,” the Fews Net [report](https://fews.net/sites/default/files/2024-06/Gaza-Targeted-Analysis-Update-042024-Final_3.pdf) found. “Acute malnutrition among children is extremely high and this will result in irreversible physiological impacts." > **[Starvation already causing many deaths and lasting harm in Gaza, agencies say](https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/05/starvation-already-causing-mass-death-and-lasting-harm-in-gaza-agencies-say)** > > Extreme hunger taking huge toll, say food security reports, regardless of delays to possible declaration of famine ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/854 "2024-06-05T21:27:04Z")
I’ve been meaning to get around to finding an exact timeline but in yemen with a military that was unabashedly trying to starve out civillians in enemy areas it took a long time for the famine to develop. And it’s not like literally everyone died after being under siege for years. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/855 "2024-06-05T23:37:12Z")
Yeah, if your definition of famine is “everyone there died of hunger due to absence of food”, there are probably very few historical circumstances that would qualify. Timeline-wise, [here](https://www.ipcinfo.org/ipc-country-analysis/details-map/en/c/1156803/?iso3=YEM) is the most recent IPC Acute Food Insecurity Projection Update for Yemen (Oct '23-Feb '24) that I can find, linking to a whole list of previous projections for earlier periods. And [here’s](https://www.ipcinfo.org/ipc-country-analysis/details-map/en/c/1156872/?iso3=PSE) the IPC projection for March-July in Gaza. > [@](#): > > The latest evidence confirms that Famine is imminent in the northern governorates of the Gaza Strip and projected to occur anytime between mid-March and May 2024. > > The IPC acute food insecurity analysis conducted in December 2023 warned of a risk that Famine may occur by the end of May 2024 if an immediate cessation of hostilities and sustained access for the provision of essential supplies and services to the population did not take place. Since then, the conditions necessary to prevent Famine have not been met. > > According to the most likely scenario, both North Gaza and Gaza Governorates are classified in IPC Phase 5 (Famine) with reasonable evidence, with 70 percent (around 210,000 people) of the population in IPC Phase 5 (Catastrophe). Continued conflict and the near-complete lack of access to the northern governorates for humanitarian organizations and commercial trucks will likely compound heightened vulnerabilities and extremely limited food availability, access, and utilization, as well as access to healthcare, water, and sanitation. > > The southern governorates of Deir al-Balah and Khan Younis, and the Governorate of Rafah, are classified in IPC Phase 4 (Emergency). However, in a worst-case scenario, these governorates face a risk of Famine through July 2024. > > The entire population in the Gaza Strip (2.23 million) is facing high levels of acute food insecurity. This includes half of the population in IPC Phase 5 (Catastrophe), an increase of 530,000 people (92 percent) from the previous analysis. > > During the projection period (mid-March to mid-July 2024), in the most likely scenario and under the assumption of an escalation of the conflict including a ground offensive in Rafah, half of the population of the Gaza Strip (1.11 million people) is expected to face catastrophic conditions (IPC Phase 5), the most severe level in the IPC Acute Food Insecurity scale. > > Between the current and the projection period, around 400,000 more people are expected to slide into IPC Phase 5 (Catastrophe). The rest of the population faces Emergency (IPC Phase 4) (854,000 people, 38 percent of the population) or Crisis (IPC Phase 3) (265,000 people, 12 percent of the population). ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/856 "2024-06-07T13:19:03Z")
Right now, I’m all; “Fuck the Israeli government”. And needed to express it. They’re seemingly psychotic and dragging us down with them. I’m pretty sure most people are with me on the government’s cruelty. Yeah, but the college protestors are, no doubt, Pro Hamas, (unless we need them to fight in a war sparked by this bullshit). If I’m overlooking anything, tell me. I really had to express my disgust. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/857 "2024-06-07T18:50:59Z")
Certainly not all, but quite a few, Israelis are all “Fuck the Israeli government”, too, at least for their own reasons. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/858 "2024-06-07T19:00:48Z")
Yes. Some of those people I think just don’t want things to escalate, but I’m sure there are many that see this as unjust. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/859 "2024-06-09T01:46:07Z")
Anyway, now that we have definitive proof that Hamas have been using refugee camps as bases of operation, I’ll be expecting full retractions and apologies from those who claimed there were never any legitimate targets there and Israel was deliberately attacking civilians in order to genocide them. > **[Israel rescues four hostages in operation Gazan officials say killed more...](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/08/middleeast/four-israeli-hostages-freed-gaza-intl/index.html)** > > Four Israeli hostages have been freed in a special operation in the Nuseirat refugee camp. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2024, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/860 "2024-06-09T02:18:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Anyway, now that we have definitive proof that Hamas have been using refugee camps as bases of operation, I’ll be expecting full retractions and apologies from those who claimed there were never any legitimate targets there and Israel was deliberately attacking civilians in order to genocide them. …from the article: > [@](#): > > “There are children torn apart and scattered in the streets, they wiped out Nuseirat, it is hell on earth,” he said. > > Another local, Abu Abdallah, said the strike hit while people were sleeping, adding: “Dogs were eating people’s remains. We pulled out six martyrs, all torn up children and women, we risked our lives to get them to the hospital.” > > Footage from Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital shows trucks and ambulances transferring injured people and bodies to the hospital. Inside the hospital, people can be seen waiting on the floor. > > Graphic video shows many Palestinians, including children, injured with blood on their faces and clothes. Footage from the hospital also shows people screaming and crying, huddled over bodies covered in blankets. The video from last night are some of the worst that I’ve seen. Children with their brains coming out of their heads. Every time Smapti demands an apology, its immediately after they’ve shared evidence of an _atrocity_. Wants to come and gloat over the bodies of brown children. This is what he is defending. Because he doesn’t think Palestinians are human. I’m pleased that the hostages are safe. How the rescues were conducted though, especially with evidence coming out that it included a disguised aid truck and potentially US involvement on the ground, is yet more evidence of breaches of the Geneva Conventions and International Humanitarian law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=44)