# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2024, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1101 "2024-06-12T23:48:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Here is a button. If you press it, 30,000 Gazans will die. > > If you do not press the button, the entire population of Gaza will die. > > Do you press the button? Can you help elucidate how this scenario analogizes to the current situation? Near as I can tell, the closest analogy would be, do I want press a button that causes Israel to halt hostilities with only 30 thousand plus dead? or do I want them to continue their bombing and starvation until every last Gazan is dead? In which case, yes I press the button. it’s a no-brainer. But given your sympathies I don’t think that is what you had in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2024, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1102 "2024-06-12T23:55:18Z")
I think he was listing his spank bank material ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2024, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1103 "2024-06-12T23:55:24Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Can you help elucidate how this scenario analogizes to the current situation? Either Israel defeats Hamas now or Hamas continues to rule Gaza for the foreseeable future. The correct answer is that which sacrifices some now so that the rest can be saved later. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1104 "2024-06-13T00:01:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So your choice is to let all of the Gazans die. > > Noted. This is why nobody likes you or wants to talk with you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1105 "2024-06-13T00:10:40Z")
Just call him Smaptanyahu. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1106 "2024-06-13T00:45:02Z")
Absolutely agreed on the yahoo part, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1107 "2024-06-13T02:19:14Z")
I’m not sure how you figure that failure to bomb Gaza results in their complete extermination. I mean Hamas sucks, and living under them was no picnic, but I don’t see it as being much better post war with no infrastructure, and at best an oppressive police state trying to maintain control over a hostile populace fighting an ongoing insurgency. It certainly won’t be better for those not alive to see it. Also even if it is better for the populace could it have been achieved without committing quite so many war crimes,and turning Israel into a pariah state. I guess we will see in 10 years, whether Gaza is free and prosperous or is instead far beyond Thunderdome. By then I expect you will have found a new authoritarian regime to idolize and can post in its pit thread about how your views on Israel back in 2024 shouldn’t be used against you since people change and you now [realize your mistake](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/386). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1108 "2024-06-13T02:55:02Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > By then I expect you will have found a new authoritarian regime to idolize I’d have to start idolizing them first. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > turning Israel into a pariah state. Israel is a pariah state for reasons that have nothing to do with anything it has ever done or will do. It’s because of exactly one reason that has existed since long before 10/7. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is why nobody likes you or wants to talk with you. Because they’re too cowardly to answer a yes-or-no question? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1109 "2024-06-13T07:00:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > it dares to challenge the expertise of your idol Bibi > > Well, thanks for the confirmation that you have no idea what you’re talking about, at least. Where does this ridiculous idea that Netanyahu is personally running this war effort even come from? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1110 "2024-06-13T07:05:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Point to one time I’ve praised that lunatic or stop lying. > > Every time you say Israel is doing the right thing you’re praising him. You’re being ridiculous. Netanyahu is not Commander in Chief. He isn’t personally running the war effort. It is fully possible to believe that the IDF is running their ship well even if you disagree with the destination that Bibi preprogrammed into the satnav. And it’s possible to criticize the destination (as Gantz has rightly done by leaving) without discrediting the whole operation. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1111 "2024-06-13T07:09:58Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I guess we will see in 10 years, whether Gaza is free and prosperous or is instead far beyond Thunderdome. That will depend _entirely_ on whether the Palestinians decide that they want to work towards a two state solution, or whether they continue on the path of revanchism. With useful idiots around the world calling for revanchism, I am not very optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1112 "2024-06-13T09:26:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your repeated use of “tankie” is demonstrative of the intellectual bankruptcy of your position: you’re just throwing all sorts of shit at the wall. “The rest of the world” is [the rest of the world](https://apnews.com/article/un-us-security-council-israel-hamas-ceasefire-834734f606a5245cc46a2487a70ae3fa). Maybe Tankie is the wrong word. Perhaps you can educate me. _Other_ than “West iMpErIaLiSt, West BAAAAD!” Tankie nonsense, what other kind of brain damage might make someone say this: > [@Brihana Joy Gray Formerly the Bernie Campaign national press secretary](#): > > When Hamas is talking about eliminating Israel, it’s not talking about killing of all Jews, it’s talking about eliminating…an ethnonationalist state and having a state more like what we have in America Or this: > [@Judith Butler](#): > > Understanding Hamas, Hezbollah as social movements that are progressive, that are on the Left, that are part of a global Left, is extremely important ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1113 "2024-06-13T09:30:28Z")
AFAICT, everything that Israel has done so far has been part of Netanyahu’s “plan”. Including the distinct lack of anything resembling long term planning for Gaza. Netanyahu wants a forever war, and ISTM that so far he’s getting it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1114 "2024-06-13T09:42:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Netanyahu wants a forever war, and ISTM that so far he’s getting it. Really? Because it seems to _me_ that the people who keep saying “it is IMPOSSIBLE to destroy Hamas, just give up, go home, and let them get ready for Oct 7 2.0” are the ones who want a “forever war”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1115 "2024-06-13T09:52:00Z")
> > Israel is now to use a colloquial phrase, up shit’s creek without a paddle. There is no plan to win the war, no obtainable path to a hostage deal, and the entire north is ablaze and uninhabitable. Meanwhile, the Israeli standing in the world is deteriorating daily. This is Netanyahu’s plan in action. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1116 "2024-06-13T09:54:50Z")
@Babale, I asked you before but you didn’t answer - how many anti Israel militants do you think the IDF is creating? Do you really think that thousands upon thousands of Gazan civilian deaths aren’t creating future terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1117 "2024-06-13T09:57:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > what other kind of brain damage might make someone say this: What kind of brain damage causes one to not understand that eliminating the nation state of Israel is not killing all Jews? There’s nothing in eliminating the nation state of Israel that requires killing any Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1118 "2024-06-13T11:00:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > @Babale, I asked you before but you didn’t answer - how many anti Israel militants do you think the IDF is creating? Do you really think that thousands upon thousands of Gazan civilian deaths aren’t creating future terrorists? Do you really think letting Hamas control Gaza, including the education system, isn’t creating all the terrorists they need? We didn’t make peace with Egypt or Jordan or any of the other countries that invaded us over and over and over again by saying “Oh no, if we kill any of them, their families will _never_ make peace with us!”. Peace with the Palestinians won’t come from us being so nice to them that they decide they actually love us. It will come when they understand that a single state Palestine will _never happen_, and move on to building up the half they _can_ get rather than trying to fight for the whole pie again and again and again and again and again and again. And again. And again. And again and again and again and again and again. Eventually, enough is fucking enough. What scares me much more than people angry that their relatives died is people who are shown that militancy works, terrorism works, and that if they refuse to build Palestine into a separate state but instead keep attacking Israel again and again and again, then eventually the international community will feel _so bad for them_ that they’ll swoop in and destroy Israel. THAT is what will (and has been) create a Forever War. So long as the people in control of the Palestinians continue to believe that terrorism plus whining when Israel retaliates is a valid path to eliminating Israel and creating a single Palestinian state “from the river to the sea”, they _will_ continue to do exactly what they have been doing since 1973, when the Arab countries gave up on militarily destroying Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1119 "2024-06-13T11:04:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > What scares me much more than people angry that their relatives died We have plenty of these people on our side, too; they aren’t the ones who go and settle in the West Bank. I’ve never met a Settler who became one because he was just _so mad_ that a terrorist killed his family. Who _does_ become a settler? People who think that: > [@Babale](#): > > militancy works, terrorism works, And that if they just build enough settlements the Palestinians will all leave, or God will wave his magic wand and they’ll disappear. The problem isn’t _people who are upset that a relative of theirs died_. The problem is _people who think that there is a realistic pathway to their side controlling the only state, and all of the land._ ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1120 "2024-06-13T11:05:55Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > What kind of brain damage causes one to not understand that eliminating the nation state of Israel is not killing all Jews? > There’s nothing in eliminating the nation state of Israel that requires killing any Jews. The brain damage isn’t in thinking that this is possible (in theory), you fucking cretin; it’s in thinking that _this is what Hamas wants_. _Listen to indigenous voices - unless they said something fucked up, in which case, lie about it to avoid making them look bad_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=57)