# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1161 "2024-07-04T00:40:17Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You’re the asshole here literally making Hamas’s strategy of hiding behind civilians work. … the IDF are bombing the civilians. The IDF are sniping the children. The IDF have forcibly displaced millions of people, the IDF have destroyed thousands of homes and have forced people to live in tents, in squalor, in misery. You blame Hamas so you can feel good about yourself. So you can feel righteous. So you can sleep at night. So you can live with the slaughter of 15,000 Palestinian children. > [@Babale](#): > > Unlike you, I don’t want all the Palestinians to die in a glorious struggle against the capitalist settler-colonialist oppressors in order to secure the Right of Return, or whatever leftist nonsense fills your head these days; If you actually gave a fuck about Palestinians you would be supporting a ceasefire now. In fact, if you actually gave a fuck about the hostages you would be supporting a ceasefire as well. Instead you are consumed with rage. And its devolved into such a hatred that the only way this ends is if you “put Hamas down” no matter how many civilians get in the way. I’ve tolerated the hate from you for months. The disgusting accusations of blood libel that you made outside of the pit. But I can’t be bothered playing nice any more. You _support_ this genocide. Lets just be open and honest about that now. > [@Babale](#): > > Unlike you, I _do_ view Palestinians as humans, not just as political pawns to use in my agenda of decolonization because I hate whiteys so much. Then support a ceasefire now. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1162 "2024-07-04T00:42:01Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Yes, if you make the claim that there is a famine - IE that people are not able to get enough food to meet their caloric needs - you best have fucking _counted calories_ before you make that claim. …we all know Israel’s history of counting calories. > **[Israel used 'calorie count' to limit Gaza food during blockade, critics claim](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-military-calorie-limit-gaza)** > > Defence ministry files on 'avoiding' civilian malnutrition are proof Israel used food restrictions to hit Hamas, says Palestine group This isn’t new. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1163 "2024-07-04T00:53:03Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … the IDF are bombing the civilians For shits and giggles, right? There’s no Hamas among them, right? You’ve never heard a Hamas lie you didn’t immediately believe. Go fuck yourself. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You blame Hamas so you can feel good about yourself. So you can feel righteous. So you can sleep at night. So you can live with the slaughter of 15,000 Palestinian children. You blame Israel because you’re too braindead to see the world through any lens other than oppressor/oppressed colonialist dynamic. Grow the fuck up. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > If you actually gave a fuck about Palestinians you would be supporting a ceasefire now. Because I’d want them to go through the last 7 months again in a couple of years after their next terrorist attack? I can’t think of a more anti-Palestinian stance than that, short of _actually_ genociding them. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > In fact, if you actually gave a fuck about the hostages you would be supporting a ceasefire as well. I care about the hostages, but not to the extent of causing this whole mess to happen again by negotiating with Hamas. I cared about Gilad Shalit, but we gave up _far_ too much to get him home - including releasing Sinwar (along with a thousand other terrorists), which directly led to Oct 7. Let’s noy do _that_ again, thanks. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You _support_ this genocide. Lets just be open and honest about that now. Fucking moron. There is no genocide; and if it wasn’t for fucktards like you egging on Hamas and doing your best to convince the Palestinians that continued conflict will eventually lead to the world community swooping in to destroy the evil settler-colonialist Zionist regime, they would have given up on groups like Hamas a _long_ time ago. While you spout off self righteously from your American defended island fortress, Palestinians are dying because of the ideology you are faithfully serving as a useless idiot for. I hope you’re proud. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1164 "2024-07-04T00:55:20Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Yes, if you make the claim that there is a famine - IE that people are not able to get enough food to meet their caloric needs - you best have fucking _counted calories_ before you make that claim. > > …we all know Israel’s history of counting calories. So to be clear, you think it is appropriate to declare a famine without any idea about how much food is coming into Gaza (and is being produced in Gaza - a significant amount that’s ignored because it doesn’t fit your oPeN aIr PrIsOn narrative); and that actually trying to figure out how much food there is is, as you derisively put it, “calorie counting” and should not be done? That’s some 1984 shit. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1165 "2024-07-04T01:13:53Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > For shits and giggles, right? There’s no Hamas among them, right? …what the evidence has shown over the last nine months is that no, Israel largely isn’t targeting Hamas. Sniping children in the head, for example. > [@Babale](#): > > You’ve never heard a Hamas lie you didn’t immediately believe. Keep telling yourself that, if it helps you sleep at night. > [@Babale](#): > > You blame Israel because you’re too braindead to see the world through any lens other than oppressor/oppressed colonialist dynamic. I blame Israel because they keep on dropping the bombs. I blame Israel because they are killing the children. > [@Babale](#): > > Because I’d want them to go through the last 7 months again in a couple of years after their next terrorist attack? Because it would stop Palestinians dying. It appears you favour destroying the village to save the village. > [@Babale](#): > > I care about the hostages, but not to the extent of causing this whole mess to happen again by negotiating with Hamas. So you don’t really care about the hostages. > [@Babale](#): > > There is no genocide Just putting it out there. > [@Babale](#): > > So to be clear, you think it is appropriate to declare a famine without any idea about how much food is coming into Gaza (and is being produced in Gaza - a significant amount that’s ignored because it doesn’t fit your oPeN aIr PrIsOn narrative); and that actually trying to figure out how much food there is is, as you derisively put it, “calorie counting” and should not be done? This is some genocidal shit. All of the reports on the looming famine in Gaza have been extremely careful to explain how difficult it is to get precise information from the ground. You are pretending that they aren’t following best practice, that they haven’t been careful in their reporting, but the reality is that they _have_. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1166 "2024-07-04T01:19:06Z")
This seems to match the projected stats I used. I guess the previous report suggested the likelihood of 50% phase 5 famine, so this is an improvement of sorts but it doesn’t contradict what I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1167 "2024-07-04T01:25:21Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > So to be clear, you think it is appropriate to declare a famine without any idea about how much food is coming into Gaza (and is being produced in Gaza - a significant amount that’s ignored because it doesn’t fit your oPeN aIr PrIsOn narrative); and that actually trying to figure out how much food there is is, as you derisively put it, “calorie counting” and should not be done? > > This is some genocidal shit. You’ve got to be fucking kidding me, Banquet Buddy. If a “famine” is defined as a certain portion of the population not having access to food, and a certain number of people dying every day, then not declaring a famine when those conditions are not met is not “some genocide shit”. If you _actually_ believe that it is, you’re truly beyond fucking help. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > This seems to match the projected stats I used. I guess the previous report suggested the likelihood of 50% phase 5 famine, so this is an improvement of sorts but it doesn’t contradict what I wrote The map shows all of Gaza as IPC 4 but if you read the report, it defines what IPC 4 is, shares the data, the data does not meet their own definition of IPC 4, but they declare Gaza to be in IPC 4 level famine anyways, which they say they are doing because the situation is volatile. So I guess they’re building in a little fudge factor to make the map show as they want it to. Nontheless, 99 people have not been dying each day of starvation. In fact, I haven’t seen any count higher than the 34 which was claimed some months ago. You’d think that if thousands of people had starved to death over the last few months, someone would have noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1168 "2024-07-04T01:30:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If a “famine” is defined as a certain portion of the population not having access to food, and a certain number of people dying every day, then not declaring a famine when those conditions are not met is not “some genocide shit”. …I’ll defer to the experts on how famine is defined. Not some random on the internet who is doing his best to defend a genocidal regime. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1169 "2024-07-04T01:31:35Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Not some random on the internet who is doing his best to defend a genocidal regime. I assume you’re describing yourself and your misguided defense of Hamas, here. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1170 "2024-07-04T01:33:52Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I assume you’re describing yourself and your misguided defense of Hamas, here. …I’m talking about you, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1171 "2024-07-04T01:42:07Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > the new IPC report backed off from these famine claim So this was a false statement. The current understanding of the IPC is what I included in my post, which was based on this report. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1172 "2024-07-04T01:42:19Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > I assume you’re describing yourself and your misguided defense of Hamas, here. > > …I’m talking about you, of course I see that you’re as bad at recognizing sarcasm as you are at recognizing genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1173 "2024-07-04T01:45:03Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > the new IPC report backed off from these famine claim > > So this was a false statement. The current understanding of the IPC is what I included in my post. You quoted 55% in phase 5 but when I look at the report I see that their current claim is 15% in Phase 5 and 10-35% projected in different areas Eta: or maybe I misread your post, not sure how I saw that. You are using the new numbers, they’re just still much higher than anything we are seeing in practice. I guess my point is that _these_ numbers represent a significant retraction from their prior numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1174 "2024-07-04T01:45:21Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I see that you’re as bad at recognizing sarcasm as you are at recognizing genocide. …just a response for the sake of clarity. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1175 "2024-07-04T01:52:59Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You quoted 55% in phase 5 but when I look at the report I see that their current claim is 15% in Phase 5 and 10-35% projected in different areas I guess you didn’t read my post. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > 22 per cent (495,000 people) projected to face catastrophic levels of acute food insecurity (IPC Phase 5). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1176 "2024-07-04T01:54:15Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I guess you didn’t read my post Yeah, I already said I fucked that up: > [@Babale](#): > > Eta: or maybe I misread your post, not sure how I saw that. But if pointing that out again makes you feel like a big man, don’t let me stop you. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1177 "2024-07-04T02:12:57Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But if pointing that out again makes you feel like a big man, don’t let me stop you. Jeez, guy lash out much. All I’ve been doing is trying to do was get an understanding of the current famine situation as reported by a fairly independent organization (i.e. not Hamas and also not Israel). I saw that our back and forth was based on a faulty understanding of what I posted then didn’t see your eta before I finally sent it out. Now we got that sorted I’ll let you get back to ongoing argument with Banquet\_Bear. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1178 "2024-07-04T02:20:06Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Jeez, guy lash out much. Ah, yes, because this was the height of civility: > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I guess you didn’t read my post. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I saw that our back and forth was based on a faulty understanding of what I posted then didn’t see your eta before I finally sent it out. If you didn’t see my ETA, that’s fair enough. I guess it seemed inconceivable that a group of supposedly intelligent and professional adults would claim with a straight face that 500,000 Gazans have no food, and that this represents them _walking back and even more ridiculous estimate of 1,000,000 starving Gazans_; but I forgot the sort of utter stupidity we are dealing with when it comes to UN human rights groups and their assessment of the Israel-Palestine situation. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1179 "2024-07-04T04:20:00Z")
…from Sky News today: > [@](#): > > On the malnutrition ward at The Kamal Adwan hospital in northern **[Gaza](https://news.sky.com/topic/gaza-8014)**, babies only days old and often premature, fight for their lives. > > Mothers are so malnourished themselves that they cannot breastfeed, and so babies are dying, literally starving to death, because they cannot get the vital nutrition that newborns need. > > “Within two weeks, we detected more than 250 patients of malnutrition,” explains Dr Hassam Abu Safah, the hospital’s director. > > … > > The body of a baby that didn’t pull through lies in a hospital incubator, awaiting burial. She was born two months premature because her mother was so exhausted. > > Too soon for her parents to even name her. Her tiny body is now wrapped in a green shroud. > > Another struggles for each breath, the bones of her exposed rib cage heave up and down with the little strength she has to keep living. Their nappies dwarf their skeletal bodies. Link itself is SFW, but CW: contains video and some photos of malnourished babies struggling to live. > **[Newborn babies now have little chance of survival in Gaza, hospital director...](https://news.sky.com/story/newborn-babies-now-have-little-chance-of-survival-in-gaza-hospital-director-warns-13162972?s=03)** > > Mothers are so malnourished they cannot breastfeed, so their babies are dying - literally starving to death - because they cannot get the vital nutrition they desperately need. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1180 "2024-07-04T09:04:05Z")
Israel is stealing more land in the West Bank. > With actions like this, it pretty much doesn’t matter how the war in Gaza goes - Israel will never have peace and security on this path. Just endless bloodshed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=60)