# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1181 "2024-07-05T02:57:42Z")
…somebody retweeted a video into my timeline that I can’t unsee. I had to block it. But the thumbnail was of a poor girl in Gaza after yet another massacre. She was still alive. But her jaw was just hanging there. Her face covered in blood. Her eyes in pain. And her jaw was just hanging off of her face. And I think back to what Babale said yesterday. That he thinks it better this “war” keeps on going, that he thinks I’m “anti-Palestinian” for wanting this carnage to stop. That he actually thinks Israel is treating detainees humanely and in accordance with international law. That displacing over a million people multiple times, destroying all major infrastructure, targeting schools and hospitals and cutting off food and essential supplies is somehow not genocidal, or ethnic cleansing. Nothing excuses October the 7th. The events of that day were horrific, were wrong, was a war crime. But _nothing_ excuses what I just saw moments ago. Not when one side of this “war” had total air, land and sea supremacy. When one side controls all of the borders. When one side is using artificial intelligence to determine targets, when one side literally had drones that it uses to terrorise people…and even shoot them. A few months ago I think I could have excused people like Babale. I can’t any more. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1182 "2024-07-05T19:20:05Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But _nothing_ excuses what I just saw moments ago. You are right, which is why Hamas should stop hiding behind civilians. But they won’t, because West-hating braindead idiots like yourself will always be there to prop them up by showing them that their strategy is working. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > A few months ago I think I could have excused people like Babale. I can’t any more. A few months ago, I would have assumed a stance as moronic as yours was adequetly explained by braindead stupidity and myopic devotion to an oppressor/opressed, colonialist/colonized dichotomy. But now I see that I was wrong; you are coming from a place of malice, because you hate anything that remotely reminds you of the evil “West”. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1183 "2024-07-05T19:27:10Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And I think back to what Babale said yesterday. That he thinks it better this “war” keeps on going, that he thinks I’m “anti-Palestinian” for wanting this carnage to stop. If you get your wish of a “cEaSeFiRe NoW”, you’ll get to see all the same pictures again in 5 years after Hamas pulls off Oct 7 2.0. That’s the bit that you’re either too fucking moronic to comprehend, or that you pretend not to understand because you want to maintain your WEST BAD routine. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1184 "2024-07-05T21:46:14Z")
I like to think of it as a DEAD CHILDREN BAD routine, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1185 "2024-07-05T22:47:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I like to think of it as a DEAD CHILDREN BAD routine, myself The only children Banquet Buddy gives a shit about are those he can use as a political prop in his “West Bad” narrative. So you’ll see him post about Gaza, or about the graves under Canadian schools, or anything else that validates his worldview. But you won’t see him post about, say, the _actual_ starving children in South Sudan, unless he is responding to someone who called him out on his hypocrisy of course. And you won’t see him call out the actual, literal genocide going on in Ukraine, where thousands of children have been stolen in order to be raised as “Russians”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1186 "2024-07-05T22:49:49Z")
“Look! Over There!” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1187 "2024-07-05T22:50:26Z")
You know what, let me rephrase: go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1188 "2024-07-05T22:52:39Z")
Care to give me the complete list of all the other places in the world we are supposed to care about before we took a look at children being killed in Gaza? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1189 "2024-07-05T23:05:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Care to give me the complete list of all the other places in the world we are supposed to care about before we took a look at children being killed in Gaza?. Come on, man - I know you’re not _this_ fucking braindead. Here’s the full list: That’s it. In other words, you can look at, and want to stop, the children dying in Gaza without needing to look at anything or anyone else. There are two problems, though. 1. cEaSeFiRe NoW morons don’t actually want to stop kids dying in the region, not in the long term. If they did, they’d want to put a stop to Hamas. 2. If I told you I was “anti murder” but every single example of murder I insisted on talking about on a daily basis was murders of white women by illegal immigrants, you might suspect that I have an agenda beyond “anti murder”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1190 "2024-07-05T23:15:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > cEaSeFiRe NoW morons don’t actually want to stop kids dying in the region, not in the long term. If they did, they’d want to put a stop to Hamas. “Gee Hamas, why don’t you tell the Israeli army not to shoot children?” Nah-I think I’ll skip a step. “Gee Israeli army, why don’t you stop shooting children?” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1191 "2024-07-05T23:21:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If I told you I was “anti murder” but every single example of murder I insisted on talking about on a daily basis was murders of white women by illegal immigrants, you might suspect that I have an agenda beyond “anti murder”. …if there were people on these boards who were actually “pro-murder”, then I’d be fighting with them every day here on these boards. You appear to be pro-killing Palestinian children, if those children happen to be standing in front of the target Hamas. Do I understand your position correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1192 "2024-07-05T23:22:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “Gee Hamas, why don’t you tell the Israeli army not to shoot children?” Nah-I think I’ll skip a step. > “Gee Israeli army, why don’t you stop shooting children?” “Gee, Israel, if Hamas stands behind a kid, you must let them do anything they want.” How about instead, “Hey Hamas, the international community is no longer going to give you carte blanche to do anything you want - so long as you put your military operations in schools and hospitals, all condemnation and pressure will fall on Israel.” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1193 "2024-07-05T23:25:10Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You appear to be pro-killing Palestinian children, if those children happen to be standing in front of the target Hamas. Do I understand your position correctly? > [@Babale](#): > > “Gee, Israel, if Hamas stands behind a kid, you must let them do anything they want.” …this appears to be your position. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1194 "2024-07-05T23:27:06Z")
So it is o.k. to shoot children if Hamas is nearby? Does the term “innocent bystander” mean absolutely nothing to you, or does your dictionary define “Children” as “Collateral damage”? Reminds me of that old Laurel and Hardy routine, where Ollie would fuck up royally, then turn to Stan and say, “_Now_ look what you made me do!”…only not as funny. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1195 "2024-07-05T23:39:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So it is o.k. to shoot children if Hamas is nearby? …you know what, I take back what I said earlier about “there’s no way you’re that fucking stupid”; clearly, you _are_ that stupid. No, that’s not my position at all. It isn’t OK to shoot children just because Hamas is “nearby”. If the only way to target Hamas results in civilian casualties, then that _still_ isn’t “ok” - it’s a horrible tragedy. It might also be the least bad option available, though. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1196 "2024-07-05T23:47:13Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > How about instead, “Hey Hamas, the international community is no longer going to give you carte blanche to do anything you want …this is, indeed, the position that much of the international community holds. And everyone, including _me_, have said that Israel have the right to defend themselves. That Hamas should be held accountable for what they did on October 7th. > [@Babale](#): > > so long as you put your military operations in schools and hospitals, all condemnation and pressure will fall on Israel.” Israel have had nine months to provide evidence that Hamas are running “military operations in schools and hospitals.” They haven’t done so. And no matter how many times I’ve asked you to prove it, you’ve failed to do so. It isn’t a very extraordinary ask. If you are going to put a hospital under siege, raid it, kill hundreds of people, abduct and hide others, then set the hospital on fire, the very least you can do is provide evidence that the hospital was a legitimate target and if you don’t, then its a warcrime. But you don’t provide it, because you don’t have it, and at this stage of the conflict that can only be because that evidence _doesn’t exist_. And instead of acknowledging that, you’ve now taken to just making personal attacks. Because that’s all you’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1197 "2024-07-05T23:49:48Z")
Why don’t you start a thread titled “When is shooting the hostage the best course of action?” and see what happens? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1198 "2024-07-05T23:56:13Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But you don’t provide it, because you don’t have it, and at this stage of the conflict that can only be because that evidence _doesn’t exist_. And instead of acknowledging that, you’ve now taken to just making personal attacks. Because that’s all you’ve got. You’re a fucking liar. I provided the evidence plenty of tiems, until I realized that you aren’t asking in good faith, and anything I post you will dismiss with your bullshit “You expect me to believe the assessments of the AMERICANS? Those genocidal wHiTe CoLoNiAlIsTs? Wrrrrraaaaa!!!”. Fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1199 "2024-07-05T23:58:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why don’t you start a thread titled “When is shooting the hostage the best course of action?” and see what happens? So, you believe that Hamas has solved war, then? They’ve found the ultimate strategy, and anyone depraved enough to use it cannot be defeated? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1200 "2024-07-06T00:02:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You’re a fucking liar. I provided the evidence plenty of tiems, until I realized that you aren’t asking in good faith, and anything I post you will dismiss with your bullshit “You expect me to believe the assessments of the AMERICANS? Those genocidal wHiTe CoLoNiAlIsTs? Wrrrrraaaaa!!!”. Fuck off. …from memory, I don’t think I’ve used the words “white colonialists” _at all_ in the context of this particular discussion. I’m not sure why this has become your new attack line on me. And no, I have no reason to blindly trust the assessments of the US administration. Neither should you, neither should anyone else. Not unless the details of those assessments are made public and open to scrutiny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=61)