# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1241 "2024-07-07T16:29:21Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The issue isn’t with the dicksucking, it’s with _whose_ metaphorical dick he chooses to suck. Uh-huh. That’s why the graphic detail and the repeats. Mmm-mmm, sure… > [@Babale](#): > > Right, which is why I’m against Hamas dicksucking. Naah, you’re just chauvinist about _which_ genocidal scum you want to get off. You’re the lifelong whore who hasn’t yet realized getting off your back is also an option, basically. So you project, project, project. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1242 "2024-07-07T16:34:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Naah, you’re just chauvinist about _which_ genocidal scum you want to get off. If I got off on genocide, Israel would be the last place I look to, since if they _were_ trying to commit a genocide, they’re clearly _fucking terrible_ at it. > [@MrDibble](#): > > You’re the lifelong whore who hasn’t yet realized getting off your back is also an option, basically. And I assume in your analogy supporting nation states is being a whore, and being an anarcho-communist or whatever the fuck you are is “getting off your back”? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1243 "2024-07-07T16:34:16Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And yet, you never do actually hold them responsible. Now who’s lying? BB has done so multiple times. > [@Babale](#): > > Where is the political pressure on Hamas to stop operating out of civilian areas? Like the IOF doesn’t do the exact same thing… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1244 "2024-07-07T16:39:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like the IOF doesn’t do the exact same thing… The IDF has army bases in schools, hospitals, and apartment buildings? You got a cite for that claim? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1245 "2024-07-07T16:39:24Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If I got off on genocide, Israel would be the last place I look to, since if they _were_ trying to commit a genocide, they’re clearly _fucking terrible_ at it. Naah, mate, they’re just _edging_ their genocide. That’s so very obviously their, and your, kink. > [@Babale](#): > > And I assume in your analogy supporting nation states is being a whore, and being an anarcho-communist or whatever the fuck you are is “getting off your back”? What the _fuck_ are you talking about? Was that the weakest-ass attempt at an _ad hom_ turnaround I’ve seen in a while, or what? What the fuck do nation-states or my personal politics (which you get laughably wrong) have to do with _anything_, never mind specifically your whoring for the IOF? Bro, do you even analogy, bro? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1246 "2024-07-07T16:40:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The IDF has army bases in schools, hospitals, and apartment buildings? Do armed IOF cadres not march around the civilian streets? What does it matter where their bases are, when they use the entire population as their meat shields? > [@Babale](#): > > You got a cite for that claim? I posted pictures right here already. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1247 "2024-07-07T16:42:51Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What the _fuck_ are you talking about? Was that the weakest-ass attempt at an _ad hom_ turnaround I’ve seen in a while, or what? What the fuck do nation-states or my personal politics (which you get laughably wrong) have to do with _anything_, never mind specifically your whoring for the IOF? Bro, do you even analogy, bro? It wasn’t an ad hominim, I don’t remember your exact political leanings and I assumed that your point about not being a whore to anyone was about any nation state. If you meant something else, cool, I guess I misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1248 "2024-07-07T16:45:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Do armed IOF cadres not march around the civilian streets? You mean when they’re on their way home from a base? They don’t _march_ around, typically, cause it’s not like a whole unit is going to the same place, but they do walk, ride public transport, or drive home; as do soldiers in any other country. > [@MrDibble](#): > > I posted pictures right here already. So, no cite for operations out of civilian areas - got it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1249 "2024-07-07T16:46:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If you meant something else, cool, I guess I misunderstood. Clearly. I meant it’s possible to not support either genocidal group, and just support the civilians being killed on both sides. And no, if killing lots of civilians is how you try to get the one side, you’re not supporting the civilians on both sides. At all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1250 "2024-07-07T16:50:00Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You mean when they’re on their way home from a base? …and just moving around in society, in civilian clothes. > [@Babale](#): > > They don’t _march_ around, typically, No, they blend in. It’s OK If An Israeli Does It, eh? > [@Babale](#): > > as do soldiers in any other country. I can assure you South African soldiers don’t go home out of uniform yet still armed with their service weapons. I’m willing to bet US and similar soldiers don’t, either. > [@Babale](#): > > So, no cite for operations out of civilian areas If walking around armed, as I have actually cited, isn’t operating, what is it? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1251 "2024-07-07T17:02:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > …and just moving around in society, in civilian clothes. When they go home and wear civilian clothes, they aren’t operating against Hamas or anyone else. Do you think all Israelis from 18 to 41 should be considered combatants because they could be called up? > [@MrDibble](#): > > No, they blend in. > > It’s OK If An Israeli Does It, eh? They _blend in_ in their _uniform_, because they walk like a normal person instead of marching? OK, bud. > [@MrDibble](#): > > If walking around armed, as I have actually cited, isn’t operating, what is it? It’s _walking_? They’re heading home, where they will lock up their service weapon, throw their uniform in the laundry, and then spend the weekend or week, however long their break is, doing the same shit that teenagers everywhere do. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1252 "2024-07-07T17:13:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I can assure you South African soldiers don’t go home out of uniform yet still armed with their service weapons. I’m willing to bet US and similar soldiers don’t, either. It varies by country. I don’t know anything about the South African army’s policy, but US bases do have a central armory. In other countries they do other things; for example in Switzerland not only do soldiers take home their weapons on breaks, they keep them forever after the service, and are expected to maintain the weapons and have them available if called up from the reserves. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1253 "2024-07-07T17:49:59Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > No, they blend in. > > > > It’s OK If An Israeli Does It, eh? > > They _blend in_ in their _uniform_, because they walk like a normal person instead of marching? He must be talking about those dudes seen walking around central Tel Aviv, dressed like they are on their way to the beach, toting a grenade launcher or other clearly military weapon. No uniform whatsoever. Definitely _not_ on their way to or from a base. Alessan said they were off-duty soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1254 "2024-07-07T18:08:24Z")
Swiss reservists don’t get ammo. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1255 "2024-07-07T18:10:05Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > must be talking about those dudes seen walking around central Tel Aviv, dressed like they are on their way to the beach, toting a grenade launcher or other clearly military weapon. No uniform whatsoever Yep, those. Posted pics before. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1256 "2024-07-07T18:23:12Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > He must be talking about those dudes seen walking around central Tel Aviv, dressed like they are on their way to the beach, toting a grenade launcher or other clearly military weapon. No uniform whatsoever. Definitely _not_ on their way to or from a base. Gotcha. So in MrDibble’s world, some Israeli soldiers breaking policy is comparable to and an excuse for Hamas putting their HQ under a hospital and firing rockets from schoolyards. What a braindead comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1257 "2024-07-07T19:09:22Z")
Just _once_, could you try to respond to what people are actually saying, instead of the voices in your head that are doing one hell of a fucked-up job translating those words for you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1258 "2024-07-07T19:10:36Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > What a braindead comparison. You are the only one making it so, yeah-braindead. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1259 "2024-07-08T00:22:36Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So you’re not even able to say “I understand your objection, let me phrase it as best I can, and here is why I disagree”. Cool. Good example of your lack of intellectual honesty. > [@Babale](#): > > **none of that is what I contested. You’re too chickenshit to even understand what my argument is, probably because you know you are wrong.** > [@Babale](#): > > The problem is that _almost the entire difference was made up by women and children_. …why do you think I don’t know what your objection is? What I don’t find credible is this: > [@Babale](#): > > It seems like the number of women and children casualties are inflated in order to lend credence to claims that Israel is being indiscriminate. Both sets of numbers are verifiable. The people with the raw data are able to check the different methodologies to see if there has been deliberate inflation. From today: > [@Lancet](#): > > Collecting data is becoming increasingly difficult for the Gaza Health Ministry due to the destruction of much of the infrastructure. > > [5](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext#bib5) > > The Ministry has had to augment its usual reporting, based on people dying in its hospitals or brought in dead, with information from reliable media sources and first responders. This change has inevitably degraded the detailed data recorded previously. Consequently, the Gaza Health Ministry now reports separately the number of unidentified bodies among the total death toll. As of May 10, 2024, 30% of the 35 091 deaths were unidentified. > > [1](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext#bib1) > > Some officials and news agencies have used this development, designed to improve data quality, to undermine the veracity of the data. However, the number of reported deaths is likely an underestimate. The non-governmental organisation Airwars undertakes detailed assessments of incidents in the Gaza Strip and often finds that not all names of identifiable victims are included in the Ministry’s list. > > [6](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext#bib6) Its very clear what you are trying to do here. You aren’t some objective arbiter of truth. What happened here was nothing more than a attempt to improve data quality, and you are using it to undermine the cviilian death toll. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, the UN estimates that, by Feb 29, 2024, 35% of buildings in the Gaza Strip had been destroyed, > > [5](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext#bib5) > > so the number of bodies still buried in the rubble is likely substantial, with estimates of more than 10 000. > > [7](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext#bib7) > > … > > n recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths. Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death > > [9](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext#bib9) > > to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza. Using the 2022 Gaza Strip population estimate of 2 375 259, this would translate to 7·9% of the total population in the Gaza Strip. A report from Feb 7, 2024, at the time when the direct death toll was 28 000, estimated that without a ceasefire there would be between 58 260 deaths (without an epidemic or escalation) and 85 750 deaths (if both occurred) by Aug 6, 2024. > > [10](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext#bib10) [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext#%20](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext#%20) Every real expert agrees that the numbers are going to be a significant undercount. It will be years before we get a clear picture of the scale of deaths. All we have is a snapshot. > [@Babale](#): > > We _are_. You most certainly _are not_ an actual expert. > [@Babale](#): > > Says you. Says his qualifications. > [@Babale](#): > > Then you’re a huge fucking idiot, because I absolutely think that Israel fucked up - the biggest fuckup since 1973 - and that Netanyahu is personally responsible for Oct 7th and must go because of that. And you’ve clearly never actually read any of my posts, because I’ve been saying that since Oct 8th. Again, another clear example of your lack of intellectual honesty (or perhaps lack of intellect). > [@Babale](#): > > This is a pipe dream. Maybe this would be true if Israel left Gaza and blockaded it tighter than ever; but if you expect any rebuilding to go on, it absolutely isn’t, because Iran will supply Hamas with everything they need to do another Oct 7. > [@The Times of Isreal](#): > > Israeli officials had intelligence that Palestinian terror group Hamas was preparing a wide-ranging attack before its October 7 assault but dismissed the information, The New York Times reported Thursday. > > A document obtained by Israeli authorities at least a year before the attack “outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people,” the newspaper reported. > > … > > But it provided a blueprint that Hamas appears to have followed: an initial rocket barrage, efforts to knock out surveillance, and waves of gunmen crossing into Israel by land and air. > > … > > A military assessment last year determined it was too soon to say the plan had been approved by Hamas, and when an analyst with the country’s signals intelligence unit warned the group had carried out a training exercise in line with the plan, [her cautions were dismissed.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-ended-exercise-in-mock-israeli-town-we-have-killed-everyone-on-the-kibbutz/) > **[Israel obtained, ignored Hamas document laying out Oct. 7 attack plan, report...](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-obtained-ignored-hamas-document-laying-out-oct-7-attack-plan-report-alleges/)** > > NYT says officials who saw 40-page paper dismissed it as unrealistic, continuing to believe the terror group was uninterested in launching a war The actual scale of the failures here are unbelievable. The fact that you can look at what happened here and conclude that “yeah, this will definitely happen again” shows how little faith you have in the Israeli government, the IDF, and the people who vow to protect it. > [@Babale](#): > > Right. But if the plan is to sit and occupy Gaza for the next 100 years, then eventually, Israel _will_ fuck up. The plan isn’t to occupy. Its to annex. > [@Babale](#): > > It isn’t a sustainable option. Hamas has to be removed so both sides can rebuild without having to worry that one fuckup will launch us into war again. You can’t even articulate what “removing Hamas” actually means. Right now Isreal are targeting Hamas Police, which, because Hamas are both a terrorist organization _and_ the governing body, means they are just targeting the _police_. And I think they are doing that because Lavender has exhausted its list of “terrorist” suspects and has moved onto something else. And what it means is a further breakdown of order into chaos. The police were _instrumental_ in making sure aid deliveries were distributed properly. But a series of targeted assassinations over the last few months have made this increasingly difficult. “Hamas has to be removed” isn’t something even remotely achievable. Because the paradigm is simply that “everybody is Hamas.” And when that’s your starting point: there is no end. > [@Babale](#): > > I do. It’s _exactly_ at the level of sickness that I think you display when you talk about this conflict, putting all the blame on Israel. I use the crude language for precisely that reason. I think it takes a level of sickness to post the sort of things you’ve been posting lately, to be honest. > [@Babale](#): > > Where is the political pressure on Hamas to stop operating out of civilian areas? I think the US and the UK and France and most of the rest of the Western world giving the okay to Israel to conduct the war in any way it likes is plenty of pressure. You are acting like the whole world is against Israel when most of the political parties in power are _backing_ Israel. > [@Babale](#): > > Well, first you’d have to acknowledge that this is something _they do,_ and that Israel isn’t shooting kids for shits and giggles. The evidence doesn’t support your thesis. Not at the scale of destruction we have seen. I’ll again point to Lavender. > **[‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza](https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/)** > > The Israeli army has marked tens of thousands of Gazans as suspects for assassination, using an AI targeting system with little human oversight and a permissive policy for casualties, +972 and Local Call reveal. Women, children, families, aren’t being killed here because “Hamas are using human shields.” They are being killed because the IDF are waiting for suspected Hamas operatives to get home before bombing it…because it was _easier_. The automated system as called “where’s daddy.” That in itself should say it all. > [@Babale](#): > > You can’t even take _that_ step. Because I think its dangerous, dehumanising rhetoric that is used as cover for the indiscriminate killing of innocents. > [@Babale](#): > > for Hamas putting their HQ under a hospital One would think that after nine months of war, holding the director of Al Shifa hospital in custody for six of those months, having raided and occupied almost all of the hospitals at least once, even destroying some of them, that Israel would have dossiers _overflowing_ with evidence to support this assertion. But they don’t. You’ve got a handful of photos and video of empty tunnels. A few obviously staged video of finding weapons in baby incubators. And thats about it. Hamas didn’t put their HQ under a hospital. And the siege, raids and desctruction of hospitals by the IDF are warcrimes. > [@Babale](#): > > and firing rockets from schoolyards. And this is just laughable. There have been 445 attacks on UNRWA facilities. 193 UN staff have been killed, over 500 displaced civilians have been killed. Show us how many of those attacks were because someone was “firing rockets from schoolyards”. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1260 "2024-07-08T00:46:02Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …why do you think I don’t know what your objection is? Because you say braindead shit like: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Every real expert agrees that the numbers are going to be a significant undercount. Again, that _has nothing to do_ with my objection here. Since you keep saying totally irrelevant things that don’t address my point at all, I’m forced to conclude that you don’t understand my complaint. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The plan isn’t to occupy. Its to annex. OK, bud. Sure it is. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You can’t even articulate what “removing Hamas” actually means. I have literally _dozens_ of times, but here we go again: It means bringing someone else in to run Gaza, so that Hamas can’t spring back up. That can be the PA, Israel, Arab states, whatever. But it requires the military defeat of Hamas first. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I’ll again point to Lavender. The fact that you keep citing +972 magazine is hillarious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=62) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=64)