# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1281 "2024-07-26T14:51:01Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Holy shit, you found an antisemite! That totally excuses Israel’s actions and everyone that disagrees just hates Jews! It might help if you respond to my posts instead of the schizo ramblings in your own head. I didn’t say anything about excusing Israel’s actions or not. > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > So some of the protestors are ‘bad apples’. > > > > How’d we put it when it came to cops? “One bad apple spoils the batch”, yeah? > > We could say the same about Israelis, yeah? Sure, instead of judging people based on their declared ideology and the actions they take, and their self selected groupings, we could instead judge them on their innate characteristics like nationality, ethnicity, or religion. Does that sound like a good idea to you? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1282 "2024-07-26T15:19:57Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That’s from the Union Station protests the other day. Sorry, I didn’t realize that. Anyway, yes, the people involved in that are clearly rabid antisemites. But the “pray for Gaza” crowd as a whole are not, athough I’m sure they attract a lot of antisemites. > [@Babale](#): > > How’d we put it when it came to cops? “One bad apple spoils the batch”, yeah? That can be taken a lot of ways. There are clearly a lot of bad apples in the IDF, for instance. But more substantively, yes, there are problems with our police, and some of them are structural and we should make changes. Nonetheless, I support the overall mission of the police, which is to protect the people from criminals and other mishaps. When my elderly mom fell and broke her hip, it was the police who broke into her apartment and took her to the emergency room. I don’t want to completely eliminate the police. I don’t want to completely eliminate the IDF and its role, either. And the Pro-Gaza protesters similarly are an important voice in the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1283 "2024-07-26T15:31:01Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I didn’t say anything about excusing Israel’s actions or not. Not in that post, no. Elsewhere, yes. Should we take your comments in a vacuum and ignore shit like your constant defense of the IDF or misogynistic accusations of sucking Hamas dick? > [@Babale](#): > > Sure, instead of judging people based on their declared ideology and the actions they take, and their self selected groupings, we could instead judge them on their innate characteristics like nationality, ethnicity, or religion. Does that sound like a good idea to you? I’m sorry, I’m just following your lead of judging an entire group based on the actions of a few bad apples when the majority of the group disagrees with them. It’s unfortunate you don’t agree with that when it’s turned back at a group you identify with. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1284 "2024-07-26T15:46:26Z")
…does anyone here on this board support the kind antisemitism shown in that picture? Anyone at all? Bueller? I condemn it. Loudly and forever. I assume everyone else does in this thread as well. As do every pro-Palestinian supporter I know, as would every single Palestinian I follow. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1285 "2024-07-26T15:51:28Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Sorry, I didn’t realize that. Anyway, yes, the people involved in that are clearly rabid antisemites. But the “pray for Gaza” crowd as a whole are not, athough I’m sure they attract a lot of antisemites. It’s worth making a distinction between the “Pray for Gaza” crowd you mention, and the Pro Hamas protestors. Honest people on the Pro Palestinian side certainly do. I _have_ seen some Pro Gaza people condemn the Pro Hamas demonstrations, like this guy who I quotef earlier - here is what he had to say about the pro Hamas protests at Union Station (he is under no illusion that these were pro _Palestinian_ protests): > But yes, I agree, most people who join the movement do so because they are misled, not out of antisemitism. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1286 "2024-07-26T16:00:11Z")
Some people support the oppressed, as they should. The Palestinians are oppressed. They mistakenly think Hamas fights for the Palestinian people, therefore reach the false conclusion that Hamas is cool. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1287 "2024-07-26T16:05:12Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > Sorry, I didn’t realize that. Anyway, yes, the people involved in that are clearly rabid antisemites. But the “pray for Gaza” crowd as a whole are not, athough I’m sure they attract a lot of antisemites. > > It’s worth making a distinction between the “Pray for Gaza” crowd you mention, and the Pro Hamas protestors. Honest people on the Pro Palestinian side certainly do. To elaborate on this - from the guy I quoted moments ago, he says he was with some of the Jewish/Israeli people who went to demand the release of the hostages, who you mentioned earlier. Here is how he describes the “Pray for Gaza” crowd’s interactions with the much larger “Pro Hamas” crowd: > [@](#): > > I was standing with a group of Jewish/Israeli protesters who were LITERALLY praying for a ceasefire in Gaza and an end to the war/hostage deal when hoards of “pro-Palestine” activists walked by and heckled/harassed these people. Instead of aligning with the hostage families who could be critical partners in creating pressure to end the war, there is a stubborn, ignorant, stupid, moronic, immature, hateful, arrogant, unsophisticated, and vile insistence on these childish actions which are ineffective and damaging. > > Shame on all the organizations and individuals who witness this behavior but deliberately choose to remain silent. By the way, these are the same people who would cry foul if a lone pro-Israel protester had a vile sign calling for the killing of all Gazans and Palestinians. The pro-Palestine cause deserves better leaders, allies, representatives, and supporters. The Palestine people will never advance their just and urgent aspirations with this kind of behavior and divisive/violent rhetoric. There needs to be pragmatic work with Jewish and Israeli allies and partners on a massive scale, across political/ideological spectrums, to achieve something tangible/different to forge a peaceful & equitable path forward. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1288 "2024-07-26T16:05:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But yes, I agree, most people who join the movement do so because they are misled …most people have joined the movement because of the ongoing genocide being committed by Israel in Gaza, and the ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories. > **[ICJ opinion on Israeli occupation is vindication of Palestinians’ rights](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/07/icj-opinion-declaring-israels-occupation-of-palestinian-territories-unlawful-is-historic-vindication-of-palestinians-rights/)** > > Israel’s occupation and annexation of the Palestinian territories are unlawful. And if you think that sharing a few images of burning American flags will cause any outrage here, just a reminder that 45 American physicians and nurses sent an open letter today to POTUS that included: > [@](#): > > Re: American physicians’ and nurses’ observations from the Gaza Strip since October 7, 2023 > > _I’ve never seen such horrific injuries, on such a massive scale, with so few resources. Our bombs_ > _are cutting down women and children by the thousands. Their mutilated bodies are a monument_ > _to cruelty._ > > Dr. Feroze Sidhwa, trauma and critical care surgeon > > _I saw so many stillbirths and maternal deaths that could have been easily prevented if the_ > _hospitals had been functioning normally._ > > Dr. Thalia Pachiyannakis, obstetrician and gynecologist > > _Every day I saw babies die. They had been born healthy. Their mothers were so malnourished_ > _that they could not breastfeed, and we lacked formula or clean water to feed them, so they_ > _starved._ > > Asma Taha, pediatric nurse practitioner > > _Gaza was the first time I held a baby’s brains in my hand. The first of many._ > > Dr. Mark Perlmutter, orthopedic and hand surgeon. > **[Letter.pdf](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bf4mfymnmn4t1wyvdkx4h/Letter.pdf?rlkey=z3ekl4u9gtya2p33ek6ud2zet&e=2&dl=0)** ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1289 "2024-07-26T16:08:16Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > They mistakenly think Hamas fights for the Palestinian people, therefore reach the false conclusion that Hamas is cool. There is a thin line between “The oppression of my people is wrong because oppression is wrong” and “the oppression of my people is wrong because _we should be the ones doing the oppressing_”. The latter is most certainly not a left wing idea or one that left leaning people should be aligning themselves with. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2024, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1290 "2024-07-26T20:29:40Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > There is a thin line between “The oppression of my people is wrong because oppression is wrong” and “the oppression of my people is wrong because _we should be the ones doing the oppressing_”. It’s not really that thin a line. Most of us who support Palestinian rights, including us Palestinian-rights supporters who happen to be Jewish, are quite clear that we support the former of those two positions, not the latter. Is there some antisemitism in some places in the pro-Palestinian rights movement? Sure, there’s antisemitism in some places in absolutely everything in modern global society (just like there’s also racism, sexism, homophobia, etc., in some places in absolutely everything). Does that fact in any way invalidate the entirety of the pro-Palestinian rights movement, or diminish the urgent necessity of speaking up against the Palestinian suffering that Israel is inflicting? No. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1291 "2024-07-27T02:22:11Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Hamas defenders on this site: “the protestors don’t hate Jews, they’re just opposed to Israel’s colonialist policies. These charges of blood libel are ridiculous!” Care to respond to what we are _really_ saying, you fucking liar? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1292 "2024-07-27T02:24:02Z")
Sorry, we can only do schizo ramblings in the head. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1293 "2024-07-27T02:42:55Z")
Serious question, and let me begin by saying I am neither looking to defend those protesters or claim that they are not anti-Semitic. That being said, you do not believe that it is possible to portray Bibi as a bloodthirsty devil and not be anti-Semitic? Below is a picture of George W. Bush as a blood thirsty devil. Is that also an anti-Semitic image? Or is it possible that Bibi has done enough harm to others to be called a blood thirsty devil, and it have no connection to his religious beliefs or ethnicity? [https://images.app.goo.gl/24ZXhfAZkGHCoHUc6](https://images.app.goo.gl/24ZXhfAZkGHCoHUc6) ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1294 "2024-07-27T03:08:44Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > That being said, you do not believe that it is possible to portray Bibi as a bloodthirsty devil and not be anti-Semitic? Not Babale, but no. It’s just too loaded of a term for anyone who’s Jewish and the history of blood libel accusations. The assertion the effigy was antisemitic was absolutely spot on, and had it stayed as just raging against the photo and not outright stating posters here disagreeing with the actions of the IDF and Israeli government supported Hamas, Babale wouldn’t have nearly the pushback they received. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1295 "2024-07-27T03:09:16Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > That being said, you do not believe that it is possible to portray Bibi as a bloodthirsty devil and not be anti-Semitic? Below is a picture of George W. Bush as a blood thirsty devil. Is that also an anti-Semitic image? Do you think that saying “here’s a picture of Bush as a chimp” means you should be able to portray Obama as a chimp? ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1296 "2024-07-27T03:22:52Z")
Whelp, I don’t really believe in devils, but I have no problem calling Bibi blood thirsty, because he is. If you have a problem with that, it is your problem not mine. Netanyahu is blood thirsty. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1297 "2024-07-27T03:42:32Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Netanyahu is blood thirsty. blood thirsty in a figurative sense not in a literal sense. The problem is that by portraying his figurative blood thirstyness as literal you run into the worst of antisemitic libel. So no, you can’t portray Obama as an ape and you can’t portray Netanyahu as having blood dripping from his mouth. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1298 "2024-07-27T13:27:40Z")
Interesting. So I can call him bloodthirsty, but drawing a picture of it is right out. That’s fine, my art skills are rather limited. Can I picture him and Trump sodomizing each other on top of a pile of money and slack jawed voters while the world burns around them? No horns, no blood. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1299 "2024-07-27T13:35:26Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Whelp, I don’t really believe in devils, You know he isn’t being portrayed _as a devil_, right? He is being portrayed as a horned Jew, a classic trope of medieval antisemitism that unfortunately, like much of medieval antisemitism, hasn’t fully died away yet. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2024, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1300 "2024-07-27T13:48:44Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Can I picture him and Trump sodomizing each other on top of a pile of money and slack jawed voters while the world burns around them? No horns, no blood. Yup. But i agree that the picture of Netanyahu with horns and a bloody mouth is antisemitic and highly offensive. And i think he’s an evil man who has ordered the murder of a lot of civilians. But that image? Just nope. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=66)