# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2024, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1621 "2024-09-12T23:24:48Z")
Israel’s actions in the West Bank indicate that those in charge of Israel are not actually serious about peace, and certainly aren’t serious about human rights for Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1622 "2024-09-12T23:27:55Z")
But it’s not the settlers who should be condemned. Fanatics will always do crazy shit. It’s the government and IDF that are supporting them that you should be condemning, and a little stronger than “well, I wish they wouldn’t do that.” What they are doing in the West Bank isn’t completely separate from Gaza, it’s all part of the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2024, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1623 "2024-09-12T23:52:27Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > They do? Well, there are a lot more recent articles about polio, and random civilians being shot, and random civilians being killed or injured by explosions, and Israeli troops vandalizing Palestinian homes and destroying basic infrastructure than there are about famine. But there are also recent articles about famine. > **[UN investigator accuses Israel of a 'starvation campaign' in Gaza that...](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-war-un-food-starvation-d9afdd12ec8da3152d4d0c88b473ca62)** > > The U.N. independent investigator on the right to food accused Israel of carrying out a “starvation campaign” against Palestinians in Gaza. > UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. independent investigator on the right to food accused Israel of carrying out a “starvation campaign” against Palestinians during [the war in Gaza](https://apnews.com/hub/israel-hamas-war), an allegation that Israel vehemently denies. (Reuters on YouTube: “unbelievable price of food worsens”) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/C0NY12n7nXY/maxresdefault.jpg "'Unbelievable prices' of food worsen hardship in Gaza | REUTERS") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0NY12n7nXY) [https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/months-after-israels-rafah-operation-gazans-say-it-is-harder-to-find-food-f7ef139d?st=oywooap8bmluv78](https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/months-after-israels-rafah-operation-gazans-say-it-is-harder-to-find-food-f7ef139d?st=oywooap8bmluv78) > # Months After Israel’s Rafah Operation, Gazans Say It Is Harder to Find Food > > ## The amount of aid reaching Palestinians has dropped since May after Israeli operation in Gaza’s south dismantled humanitarian infrastructure there > > ![Children searched for food in the garbage last month in Deir al-Balah, central Gaza.](https://images.wsj.net/im-990354/?width=1278&size=1) > > Children searched for food in the garbage last month in Deir al-Balah, central Gaza. Abed Rahim Khatib/Zuma Press > > By Abeer Ayyoub and [Omar Abdel-Baqui](https://www.wsj.com/news/author/omar-abdel-baqui) > > Follow > > Aug. 11, 2024 9:30 am ET Most articles say that that Israel denies famine conditions in Gaza. And also that Israel is accused of using famine as a weapon, but dials it back when they get too much international pressure > **[Untangling the Reality of Famine in Gaza - Refugees International](https://www.refugeesinternational.org/reports-briefs/untangling-the-reality-of-famine-in-gaza/)** > > Without enduring aid access, civilian protection, and humanitarian security, there remains a grave risk of famine conditions spiraling once again in Gaza. > Contrary to the official Israeli pushback, research and analysis by Refugees International has corroborated evidence of a severe hunger crisis in Gaza and found consistent indications that famine-like conditions occurred in northern areas during the first half of 2024. Refugees International also found that the ebbs and flows in hunger conditions are closely linked to Israeli government restrictions and concessions on aid access, and to the conduct of the Israeli military. International pressure on the Israeli government in March and April, following warnings of imminent famine in parts of Gaza, prompted a series of Israeli concessions around aid and commercial access. > These shifts enabled a brief period of stabilizing conditions in April that altered the rapidly worsening hunger trajectory seen in February and early March, and that likely deferred an otherwise imminent descent into widespread famine. However, this improvement was short-lived, and conditions have again been deteriorating badly since the Rafah offensive in May. Without a more widespread and enduring course-correction on aid access, civilian protection, and humanitarian security, there remains a grave risk of famine conditions spiraling once again. Despite the extraordinary number of journalists who have been killed by the Israeli military, news continues to trickle out of Gaza. Maybe Israeli media isn’t showing stories of starving orphaned children, weeping for their parents. US media is. And all the little, completely unnecessary damage. Civilians who return to their homes to find their appliances trashed and graffiti on their walls. Stuff that can’t possibly have military value. In the US, most of the coverage these days is US reporters talking to doctors who have returned from stints in Gaza. Most recently, people involved with the polio vaccination effort. (Something that wouldn’t be needed if the water and sewer systems hadn’t been dismantled.) Destroying a person’s livelihood and then grudgingly feeding them enough that the neighbors don’t complain too loudly is a shitty thing to do. Morality between nations isn’t the same as morality between people, of course, but that’s basically what’s been done to a very large fraction of Gazans. On the pro-Israel side, there have also been some recent stories about military victories and how Hamas planned to use those tunnels. And I’m sure atrocities have been committed in every war. But i just can’t imagine that anyone in Gaza will ever trust Israel in any way. And that’s mostly Israel’s fault. The people conducting this way don’t want peace. They don’t want two states. They want to grind the Palestinians to dust under their boots. And i think that bodes poorly for the future of Israel as well as for the Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2024, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1624 "2024-09-13T00:45:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > there are a lot more recent articles about polio, And how well Israel has done in coordinating with the WHO to get all the kids in Gaza vaccinated, yeah. It’s amazing what an international group can accomplish when it’s not a front for terrorism. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > But i just can’t imagine that anyone in Gaza will ever trust Israel in any way. And yet, we’re supposed to trust Palestinians after Oct 7 and just hand them a sovereign state expecting them not to use every opportunity that state gives them to kill us better. Sure. > [@](#): > > And that’s mostly Israel’s fault. Whose fault is it that Israelis don’t trust the Palestinian leadership? > [@](#): > > The people conducting this way don’t want peace. They don’t want two states. They want to grind the Palestinians to dust under their boots. And i think that bodes poorly for the future of Israel as well as for the Palestinians. And I think you’re being naive about the way war is fought. I’m not denying that war is ugly; of course it is. It’s fucking war. Thankfully for you, you’ve got a couple of oceans making sure war never comes to your home. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1625 "2024-09-13T00:46:47Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That said, I disagree with Netanyahu on what we should do about that. Israel maintaining control of the entire region would be kicking the can down the road, preventing an immediate existential war but not solving the problem. That’s why I favor a third party - ideally a coalition of Arab states, but a force led by Europe or the US would work too - taking over security responsibilities while a Palestinian state is set up. Yes, I agree that is the only realistic solution to the cycle of violence. Unfortunately, I don’t think Netanyahu would ever agree to such a thing, even if the Arabs, Europe, and/or the US had the political will to suggest it, which I don’t see happening in the foreseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2024, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1626 "2024-09-13T00:47:36Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Thankfully for you, you’ve got a couple of oceans making sure war never comes to your home. If it does, we will kill a few million people on the other side of the world and render a couple of countries into piles of rubble. And everyone will piously say, “Ooh it’s terrible that we had to do that” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1627 "2024-09-13T01:53:14Z")
Yeah i just finished watching the presidential debate, which ended with Trump promising us WW3. That’ll be a wholesale war. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1628 "2024-09-17T15:36:07Z")
Don’t know if this is the right thread for this bit of explosive news, but here goes. This is damn diabolical. > **[Exploding pagers injure hundreds in attack targeting Hezbollah members,...](https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/17/middleeast/lebanon-hezbollah-pagers-explosions-intl/index.html)** > > Hundreds of people were injured Tuesday in an attack targeting the pagers of Hezbollah members, a Lebanese security source told CNN. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1629 "2024-09-17T16:51:39Z")
Israel didn’t do that. And if they did, the children of Lebanon have brought this on themselves. I thought Gantz was supposed to wrest control of the Israeli government from Bibi by now. Instead, Netanyahu is more popular with Israelis again. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1630 "2024-09-17T16:54:41Z")
That pager stuff is some crazy shit. How on Earth was that accomplished? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1631 "2024-09-17T17:01:32Z")
Defies explanation. Weird. Only thing I can think of is that somehow the software was rigged to let the pagers’ lithium-ion batteries all overheat and rupture/catch on fire upon some sort of signal or code. But even then that would be likelier to lead to a hot blaze rather than an outright grenade-type blast. Unless all the pagers had been manufactured in Israel and had tiny amounts of explosive inserted in each, which would be even wackier. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1632 "2024-09-17T17:03:24Z")
If all the pagers exploded at the same time, then I think it would be explosives, not the battery – battery heating wouldn’t always explode (in fact, I think it usually wouldn’t explode, most of them would, at worst, start a fire). If indeed they all exploded at the same time, then ISTM that they all must have had explosives inside, which were triggered remotely simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1633 "2024-09-17T17:05:09Z")
Thinking about it a bit, perhaps the Mossad intercepted a batch of pagers in transit to be sold, modified them, and then sent them on their way? And then had some way of determining which ones went to Hezbollah (if we presume that all the ones that exploded were in the hands of Hezbollah operatives)? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1634 "2024-09-17T17:13:02Z")
My guess is that they knew Hezbollah was buying a bunch of pagers for their operatives/officials/members, and otherwise, yeah, someone (probably Mossad) intercepted that particular shipment and sabotaged them in the way you describe. If anyone did that in the United States, or Israel, we would have no issue with calling it a terror attack, and say that the nation who inflicted the attack was a terror state. I don’t see a call for a double standard in this case. This was a terror attack, and whoever perpetrated it is a terrorist; if it’s a state, it’s a terror state. Assassinating enemies is one thing. Giving them grenades that explode in public is something else entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1635 "2024-09-17T17:13:36Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Israel didn’t do that. > > And if they did, the children of Lebanon have brought this on themselves. > > I thought Gantz was supposed to wrest control of the Israeli government from Bibi by now. Instead, Netanyahu is more popular with Israelis again. Thanks for proving that so much of the opposition to Israel has nothing to do with concern for Palestinians or lives; it’s just hatred of Israel. I can’t imagine a more targeted strike than blowing up Hezbollah’s pagers, yet here you are, bitching and moaning because your boys Hezbollah are gonna be less capable of killing Israelis in the future. My thoughts and prayers go out to Nasrallah (specifically, I pray he had his pager shoved up his own ass when it blew up). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1636 "2024-09-17T17:14:51Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Israel didn’t do that. > > And if they did, the children of Lebanon have brought this on themselves. You’ve got all your bases covered, I see. You could pretty much answer most posts in this thread with that one stock answer. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1637 "2024-09-17T17:15:43Z")
It’s hard to imagine how a couple thousand small bombs going off in Lebanon, even if it turns out most of them were being held by Hezbollah members, improves the security of Israel. No real significant long-term damage to Hezbollah, just more fear, blood, and death (including some civilians). More fear, blood, and death in Lebanon makes things more dangerous for Israelis, not safer. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1638 "2024-09-17T17:28:07Z")
Such actions are horrible…until the perpetrator is named, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1639 "2024-09-17T17:28:53Z")
Weird how I never said anything like that. I’m bitching because there’s hundreds or thousands of innocents injured and dead kids, and it wasn’t just Hezbollah pagers that exploded. But hey, a couple terrorists died, so fuck everyone else? Kindly fuck back off to defending Israel’s bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1640 "2024-09-17T17:32:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Thinking about it a bit, perhaps the Mossad intercepted a batch of pagers in transit to be sold, modified them, and then sent them on their way? And then had some way of determining which ones went to Hezbollah (if we presume that all the ones that exploded were in the hands of Hezbollah operatives)? Maybe. But the amount of explosive must have been substantial (relative to the size of the inside compartments of the pager.) And all it would have taken would have been for one Hezbollah (or non-Hezbollah) person to open up their pager, perhaps for maintenance or repair, one day, and say “Huh, what’s this thing that doesn’t belong here?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=81) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=83)