# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 90
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1781 "2024-09-29T20:40:33Z")
So that’s the big difference. You don’t seem to think the WB is a big part of this whole situation, Oct 7th and long before, and I do. I think it’s critical precisely because it’s under Israeli control, and no real significant threat to Israel. If they can’t treat that area and it’s people with something approaching real human rights, then it’s crystal clear they’re not actually interested in the kind of human rights that would be required for real peace and security. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1782 "2024-09-29T20:41:45Z")
If you think Netanyahu is motivated by the desire for long term peace and security for Israel rather than staying in power and out of jail, then I feel pretty good about having no idea who you are and not caring about your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1783 "2024-09-29T20:47:21Z")
> **[Israel has launched a major operation in the West Bank. Here’s what to know.](https://www.vox.com/palestine/369736/west-bank-violence-jenin-raid-settler-idf-israel-gaza-hamas)** > > The raids come amid escalating violence in the Palestinian territory. This article seems fact-based to me, not crafted “through the implicit assumption that Israel is a colonialist project”. This is the type of story that informs my view on the West Bank. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1784 "2024-09-29T21:24:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So that’s the big difference. You don’t seem to think the WB is a big part of this whole situation, Oct 7th and long before, and I do. Then why did the Arab-Israeli conflict stretch on for decades, long before Israel ever got control of the West Bank? Look up polls on the topic, look up what the Palestinian leadership says. Over and over, loudly and proudly, they explain to you that the Israelis are occupiers who must be removed, river to sea. And then we get useful idiots like yourself here in the West who explain to us that no, what they tell us isn’t what they mean, what they actually want is sanitized, Hollywood approved, Braveheart style FREEDOOOOOM!!! If only Israel left the West Bank alone, the Palestinians, both Hamas and Fatah, and also Hezbollah and the Houthis and Iran, would all just accept a Jewish state and everything would be great. If only Israel wasn’t such a big meanie. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1785 "2024-09-29T21:27:15Z")
“If only Israel left the West Bank alone…” And yet Israel can’t manage to come remotely close to treating them with human rights. And hasn’t for many years. That’s not the fault of the civilians getting brutalized, pushed out of their homes, and worse. It’s not everything, but it’s something. It’s very far from nothing. And unlike so much of this conflict, it’s entirely within Israel’s power. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1786 "2024-09-29T21:36:36Z")
People living in the West Bank may or may not accept the idea of a Jewish-majority state, but what they definitely 100% do not accept is being displaced from their homes (by the Israeli government, by terrorists, by gangs, whoever feels like fucking them over on any given day). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1787 "2024-09-29T22:56:12Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > People living in the West Bank may or may not accept the idea of a Jewish-majority state, but what they definitely 100% do not accept is being displaced from their homes (by the Israeli government, by terrorists, by gangs, whoever feels like fucking them over on any given day) Simple solution to that problem: accept the two state solution, form a government whose priority is ensuring for the well being of the Palestinian people rather than wipining out Israel, and then that government prevents Hamas, or gangs, or foreign countries like Israel from messing with people’s homes. The stumbling block is the strong support for revanchism among Palestinians. You can pretend that there is no revanchism, that the Palestinians just want to throw off the yolk of their oppressors… But only if you make sure never to listen to a word the Palestinian leadership says and insist that any opinion polls are all super duper rigged. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1788 "2024-09-29T23:00:11Z")
If you’re right about the polls, Palestinians in the West Bank seem to have little if any belief that Israel can be a real negotiating partner for peace. Israeli policy on the West Bank seems determined to prove that this is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1789 "2024-09-29T23:01:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you’re right about the polls, Palestinians in the West Bank seem to have little if any belief that Israel can be a real negotiating partner for peace. When the peace you want is to drive all the Israelis out, Israel is not gonna be a good negotiating partner, no. Sorry, not sorry. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1790 "2024-09-29T23:03:36Z")
I know! After all Netanyahu and his allies have done to curb the settlers, protect Palestinian property and lives, and promote and assist peaceful Palestinians against extremists like Hamas, how could Palestinians in the West Bank possibly view Israel as anything but a real partner for peace and human rights? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1791 "2024-09-29T23:07:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I know! After all Netanyahu and his allies have done to curb the settlers, protect Palestinian property and lives, and promote and assist peaceful Palestinians against extremists like Hamas, how could Palestinians in the West Bank possibly view Israel as anything but a real partner for peace and human rights?. And that’s why Arab aggression against Israel only started after Israel started building settlements in the West Bank! Amazing how much sense your view make if we gloss over the majority of the history involved. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1792 "2024-09-29T23:07:51Z")
I know that that if my house were destroyed, and my dad beaten up for nothing, I’d never go so far as having bad feelings for the government that supported and allowed my house to be demolished and father to be beaten. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1793 "2024-09-29T23:09:15Z")
I forgot - Arab agression in the past means it’s okay to brutalize Palestinians and take their property, and blame them if they get upset about it. Thanks for your help! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1794 "2024-09-29T23:13:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I forgot - Arab agression in the past means it’s okay to brutalize Palestinians and take their property, and blame them if they get upset about it. No, but it does show that your narrative - that mean old Israel came in and brutalized the Palestinians for no reason and blew up their houses and that’s the only reason for terrorism and hostility against Israel - is horseshit. And Oct 7 isn’t exactly the distant past. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I know that that if my house were destroyed, That’s what happens when terrorists launch rockets out of your house. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > and my dad beaten up for nothing, Sure bud. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1795 "2024-09-29T23:14:09Z")
I agree! That fictional narrative that I never espoused is indeed horseshit! And shame on me for suggesting that some Palestinians in the West Bank lost their houses, or were ever beaten, for no good reason at all. That’s definitely never happened at all. How could I have every thought it did? Thanks so much for correcting me that no Palestinian civilians in the West Bank have ever been treated improperly after doing nothing wrong! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1796 "2024-09-29T23:34:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I agree! That fictional narrative that I never espoused is indeed horseshit! The fictional narrative you DID espouse was indeed horseshit as well. Here’s the thing. Whether or not my house was blown up or my dad was beat up, and whether or not he did anything to deserve it, if I was raised in the West Bank, going through the UNWRA funded education system that told me all about how the Jews were sons of apes and pigs who stole my land, I’d probably hate the Jews anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1797 "2024-09-29T23:34:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And shame on me for suggesting that some Palestinians in the West Bank lost their houses, or were ever beaten, for no good reason at all. That’s definitely never happened at all. How could I have every thought it did? > > Thanks so much for correcting me that no Palestinian civilians in the West Bank have ever been treated improperly after doing nothing wrong! Wow, you’re really good at demolishing straw men! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1798 "2024-09-29T23:36:55Z")
My apologies! If it turns out you agree with me that some Palestinians in the West Bank have indeed been beaten, or lost property, or otherwise were mistreated through no fault of their own, and if you agree with me that this is a very bad thing that should stop, then I’m very glad to see us on the same page! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1799 "2024-09-29T23:38:52Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > I agree! That fictional narrative that I never espoused is indeed horseshit! > > The fictional narrative you DID espouse was indeed horseshit as well. > > Here’s the thing. Whether or not my house was blown up or my dad was beat up, and whether or not he did anything to deserve it, if I was raised in the West Bank, going through the UNWRA funded education system that told me all about how the Jews were sons of apes and pigs who stole my land, I’d probably hate the Jews anyways. Ahh, thank you for correcting me. I now see that these beatings and property thefts are no big deal, and should not be widely protested, because of existing anti Semitic teachings in school curricula. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/1800 "2024-09-29T23:40:48Z")
Thanks so much for your patience in teaching me! I’m learning so much! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=89) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653.md?page=91)