# Discussion for the Israel-Hamas War: A thread in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [November 5, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653 "2023-11-05T21:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 805
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653/805 "2024-05-31T05:55:29Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, “blood libel” is a totally inappropriate description, imho, and i do a double take every time i see it. It’s only libel if it’s false, and that term has been applied to too much that is sadly very true. And to things that aren’t very closely related to what “blood libel” traditionally meant. > > If you want to tell me that a particular accusation is false or lacks context, do that. Don’t throw “blood libel” around. I agree that it doesn’t work to counter one misleading exaggerated accusation with another misleading exaggerated accusation. If you’ve got a cite that shows that this or that Israeli military leader was talking about eliminating Hamas specifically when Bloomberg quoted them as talking about eliminating Gaza, then definitely that needs to be pointed out. But if you foam at the mouth about the entire report in which that quote appears just being a baseless antisemitic smear and “blood libel” because of (one? several?) such inaccuracies, that makes you look like the unreliable source. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Sure there is. It’s called negotiating. You usually do it at a table, with shared food and without guns. It continues to mystify me how the Israeli government passed up such a huge and guaranteed victory in the war of public opinion, in favor of the mythical goal of “eliminating Hamas”. If Israel had gone hard for a ceasefire and hostage return after maybe a few weeks of bombing, with several thousand Gazan casualties—enough to maintain the deterrence factor of disproportionate reprisals, looking at it from a ruthless realpolitik viewpoint—then they would have remained indisputably the sympathetic party, in the eyes of most of the world. The October 7 victims of Hamas would have been the primary focus of grief and compassion, and not only in Israel. Active support worldwide for Palestinian rights would have plummeted. Again from a ruthless realpolitik viewpoint, the subset of Israelis who are really invested in oppressing Palestinians and taking over more land in the Palestinian territories would have had basically a free hand for at least the next couple of decades. Unflinching internal investigations into the intelligence and security failures that permitted the Oct. 7 attacks (together with ongoing targeted assassinations of terrorist leaders as opportunities occurred) would have made Israel at least as secure as it has been for the last decade or so, with a lot more latitude to take even stricter repressive measures in the name of security. And they would have remained basically unchallenged in world popular opinion as the “good guys” in the conflict. (Can you imagine that Israel’s Eden Golen wouldn’t have won Eurovision with the tragic ballad “Hurricane” in that alternate timeline?) But in this timeline, here we are after an additional six months or so of nonstop slaughter, with 30-40000 Palestinians dead amid endless trauma, and the signature images of the catastrophe are incinerated Palestinian babies buried under acres of rubble, and mown-down aid workers. And Israel is now firmly in the role of the “bad guys” in most of world opinion. (And no, not just because of some irrational compulsion to make up baseless accusations of murder against Jews. Because of 30-40000 slaughtered Palestinians and vast swathes of destruction and devastation, in case you hadn’t noticed.) Oh, and Hamas forces are continuing to resume activity in northern Gaza and consolidate their hold on what remains of civil society. No outcome of this catastrophe is ever going to be worth what Israel is paying for it. And mind you, that’s all just from a ruthless realpolitik-type consideration of what would benefit Israel’s own interests, disregarding the plight of the Palestinians. I suppose an argument could be made that there’s a silver lining in the world’s now paying some more attention to Palestinian suffering, and Palestinian rights and justifiable claims. But IMHO, that’s nowhere near worth what the Palestinians are paying for it, either. (I pass over the obvious issue of the original Oct. 7 attacks by Hamas being counterproductive and evil, because I think we all already agree about that. I’m just thinking about your suggestions regarding what Israel could do/have done instead, given that the Oct. 7 attacks did happen.) --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-for-the-israel-hamas-war-a-thread-in-the-pit/992653)._