# Discussion of Ali being racist \[mod title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 4, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549 "2016-06-04T19:45:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffes_Can_t_Dance)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/1 "2016-06-04T19:45:49Z")
The latitude allotted to Ali’s racism is quite remarkable. We are set to be ambushed with loads of BS regarding what a great person Ali was. I beg those of you who subscribe to such ignorance to look into how Ali treated Joe Frazier. Look into what he called George Foreman. Look into his views on interracial marriage and Jewish people. Was Ali a great fighter? One of the best! Was Ali entertaining? He changed the way athletes marketed themselves. But a good person, he was not. ---
**Author:** ![cherry\_pez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8491ac/32.png) [@cherry\_pez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cherry_pez)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/2 "2016-06-04T22:10:21Z")
If you can’t forgive a black man at 20 in the South in the early '60s being seduced by the NOI you’ve got problems. Likewise if you can’t condemn Ali for his treatment of Frazier. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/3 "2016-06-04T22:22:20Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > The latitude allotted to Ali’s racism is quite remarkable. > > We are set to be ambushed with loads of BS regarding what a great person Ali was. I beg those of you who subscribe to such ignorance to look into how Ali treated Joe Frazier. Look into what he called George Foreman. Look into his views on interracial marriage and Jewish people. > > Was Ali a great fighter? One of the best! Was Ali entertaining? He changed the way athletes marketed themselves. But a good person, he was not. Why don’t you give us some links? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffes_Can_t_Dance)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/4 "2016-06-05T00:29:35Z")
It’s funny for whom we choose to allow to get away with racism. I understand appreciating Ali in a separate-the-artist-from-the-art kinda way. I mean, the guy was a great boxer. But for some to refer to him as a “hero”, or as a “social warrior”, is not only ignorant, it’s distrusting. The guy literally spoke at a KKK rally expressing his support for their beliefs in segregation. A bad man died today. We recognize him because he was good at a sport. How shallow! ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/5 "2016-06-05T00:34:29Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > It’s funny for whom we choose to allow to get away with racism. I understand appreciating Ali in a separate-the-artist-from-the-art kinda way. I mean, the guy was a great boxer. But for some to refer to him as a “hero”, or as a “social warrior”, is not only ignorant, it’s distrusting. > > The guy literally spoke at a KKK rally expressing his support for their beliefs in segregation. > > A bad man died today. We recognize him because he was good at a sport. How shallow! Please provide cites. ---
**Author:** ![cherry\_pez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8491ac/32.png) [@cherry\_pez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cherry_pez)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/6 "2016-06-05T00:45:27Z")
He left the NOI in his early 30s for mainstream Islam. Geez. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/7 "2016-06-05T01:17:23Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > The guy literally spoke at a KKK rally expressing his support for their beliefs in segregation. An eye witness, were you? ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/8 "2016-06-05T01:26:49Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > The latitude allotted to Ali’s racism is quite remarkable. > > We are set to be ambushed with loads of BS regarding what a great person Ali was. I beg those of you who subscribe to such ignorance to look into how Ali treated Joe Frazier. Look into what he called George Foreman. Look into his views on interracial marriage and Jewish people. > > Was Ali a great fighter? One of the best! Was Ali entertaining? He changed the way athletes marketed themselves. But a good person, he was not. That is your opinion he was a good person to me plus a greater and stood up for what he believes in ! RIP The Greatest of All Time ! ---
**Author:** ![Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffes_Can_t_Dance)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/9 "2016-06-05T02:23:31Z")
> [@cherry\_pez](#): > > He left the NOI in his early 30s for mainstream Islam. Geez. Get over it. Ali never disavowed those beliefs that he very publicly held whilst with the NOI: • Anti-interracial couples • Pro-segregation • White people were the devils In fact, Ali continued expressing support for segregation after he split from the NOI. Ali only left the NOI, according to him, because Elijah Muhammad died. He was a cold racist; and like most racists, he was of extremely low intellect (78 IQ). ---
**Author:** ![cherry\_pez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8491ac/32.png) [@cherry\_pez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cherry_pez)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/10 "2016-06-05T02:45:32Z")
So produce a quote post-1975 where he says any of that. Leaving the organization is enough of a repudiation for me and, I think, most people. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/11 "2016-06-05T02:52:54Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > He was a cold racist; and like most racists, he was of extremely low intellect (78 IQ). That’s not what I heard. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffes_Can_t_Dance)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/12 "2016-06-05T03:22:30Z")
> [@cherry\_pez](#): > > So produce a quote post-1975 where he says any of that. Leaving the organization is enough of a repudiation for me and, I think, most people. As I said before, Ali stated, in his own words, that he left the NOI due to Elijah Muhammad’s death. Not because his beliefs changes. When you’ve made the kind of overly-racist startements that Ali has, disavowing is necessary. Ali was a guy who loved to talk. He would have gladly stated such a change in views publicly. The guy literally rallied for segregation with the KKK. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffes_Can_t_Dance)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/13 "2016-06-05T03:26:47Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That’s not what I heard. It’s a well-known fact. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/14 "2016-06-05T03:40:46Z")
Okay, I’m splitting these posts off from the Game Room thread about Ali’s death. Feel free to debate about it here. **The title was made by me, not the OP.** The OP of this topic did not make a topic in here, the BBQ Pit, I just moved the hijack here and it became a topic. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/15 "2016-06-05T03:56:53Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > It’s a well-known fact. If it’s a “well-known-fact”, then you can dig up a cite for it, jackass. Put up or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/16 "2016-06-05T04:35:58Z")
I’m not the OP, but this does appear to be a video of Ali describing his attendance at a KKK convention: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/kAEVt8P9MJc/hqdefault.jpg "Muhammad Ali and the Ku Klux Klan") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAEVt8P9MJc) I have no idea what year the video is from. ---
**Author:** ![cherry\_pez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8491ac/32.png) [@cherry\_pez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cherry_pez)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/17 "2016-06-05T04:37:31Z")
Rallying with the KKK? I don’t believe that for a second. You honestly think the NOI would associate with the KKK? So, cite? The proximate cause of Ali leaving the NOI may have been Elijah’s death but he was moving away from them since his pilgrimage to Mecca years earlier. He was moving towards Malcolm X if anything. And if Malcolm could moderate his views on race after leaving NOI why is it so hard to believe Ali could do the same? This is such a weird obsession. The man lived for 40 years after all that nonsense. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![cherry\_pez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8491ac/32.png) [@cherry\_pez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cherry_pez)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/18 "2016-06-05T04:50:03Z")
Wow. Ok. So that apparently came out in a 2008 documentary. Ali telling a “story” to a reporter. Any other confirmation that this happened? Aww fuck it. I don’t care either way. The guy did whatever he was he told by the NOI. I’ll blame them. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/19 "2016-06-05T04:55:15Z")
Based on the later quotes here, I’ll vote that he changed his opinions on race and segregation as he aged: > **[Muhammad Ali - Wikiquote](https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali)** The man who died, no longer seemed to hate any one of any other race. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549/20 "2016-06-05T05:03:51Z")
> [@Giraffes\_Can\_t\_Dance](#): > > He was of extremely low intellect (78 IQ). lol. How stupid. And I don’t mean Ali. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-ali-being-racist-mod-title/756549.md?page=2)