Discussion of Official Calls in Super Bowl 43

[kidchameleon]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

Funny thing - if it were ruled a forward pass, it would have had to have also been ruled illegal touching, since the first thing it hit was an offensive lineman. With five seconds left in the game, the ten second run off for an offensive penalty would have killed the clock.

This is incorrect. The run-off only occurs if the foul stopped the clock. An incomplete pass would stop the clock, thus there would be no run off.

[HongKongFooey]

@furt

Which brings me to the two calls I thought were totally blown: did nobody else see the two non-calls on Roethlisberger for intentional grounding? On one, there was nobody even on the screen where he threw it…

There doesn’t have to be anyone in the area as long as he throws it at least back to the line of scrimmage. There was another throw which had been debated where Roethlisberger was across the left hash mark and Max Starks was inside the hash mark making him out of the pocket.

I agree with what you say about the Roughing the Passer. With a QB like Big Ben you never know what he’s going to do; it was the right play by Dansby, bad call by the officials.

[Omniscient]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

Again, you’ll be embarrassed if you watch this again. Clipping will never be called when the two players are looking at each other, and when the blocker first makes contact with the other players’ shoulder first. “Square in the back”? Not even close.

Watch this video, pause it at the 12 second mark. See Hightower’s head snapping forward? See the hands square in the nameplate?

You are simply lying.

I suppose I’m patently insane then. The replay confirmed that his knee was up, off the field, and the overturn was bogus.

This is the best photo that I’ve found. The blog it’s posted on comes to the wrong conclusion even in the face of the evidence and I understand why people who want to see it that way would. But, when you look at it you can see that the knee is in the grass. The yellow of the pants at the curve of the knee is flattened in the image because it’s within the turf. That is not a “shadow” under the knee, that is a shadow cast from the players above in front of the leg, just like the dozen shadows surrounding it. The fact that it’s the same darkness as all the other shadows pretty convincingly indicates that it’s not from an object a fraction of an inch off the turf but instead from a body part much higher.

An illegal stiff arm? Okay - but you’ll never, ever, ever see a stiff arm like that called. Unfair? Perhaps, but boo hoo hoo. That’s just the way it goes.

Agreed. Just pointing out that there is no such thing as the “rule” claimed in this thread. Runners do not have any special dispensation to stiff-arm, just that it’s never called as it’s intended. Kinda like traveling in basketball. It’s judgment call. Still, I think the bigger gray area on that call is the fact that Cromartie didn’t seem to grab and tug the mask, which is supposed to be the determination of a 15-yard facemask under the revised rules. Again, a judgment call, but a iffy one.

the refs upstairs reviewed the play, and it was obvious to everyone that he had nothing near control of the ball. Could not be clearer. No control, no pass, regardless of whether his arm was going up, down, backwards or forwards.

This is a complete violation of the rules and is revisionist history by the NFL office. A play is not reviewed if it’s not seen by the on-field officials. There was a grand total of 40 seconds in which the booth had to look at the play and there’s no chance they gave it the proper time to make a decision. The fact that a full day later and people are still arguing about it makes it obvious that it’s not “clear cut” by any stretch.

Again, irrelevant anyway, since a pass would have resulted in illegal touching and a 10 second run off, but a correct call on the field and correct booth review.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. That is not how the rule works. Regardless of if it was a fumble or not it’s clear Woodley deflected it making that completely irrelevant. How can I take you seriously when you don’t even know the rules?

[Cerowyn]

I had to go back and watch the DVR of the game since so many people seem certain that Ben was in the endzone. I have a 60" HD TV, and I slowed it down and went frame by frame. It is uncontroversial that his knee was down before the ball was in the endzone. And, FTR, I was firmly on the side of wanting Pittsburgh to win.

[furt]

@Omniscient

Watch this video, pause it at the 12 second mark. See Hightower’s head snapping forward? See the hands square in the nameplate?

Dude, you’re right. It’s pretty obvious. Don’t think it’s reviewable, though.

[UltraVires]

1. Ben was in the endzone–TD. I still have yet to see a pic of the “incontrovertable” video proof that is required to reverse that call.

2. Harrison TD—correct call.

3. Warner fumble overturned to an incomplete pass–correct call.

4. Second Warner fumble–correct call. In my mind not even close enough to review

5. Holding in the end zone–correct call.

6. Roughing the passer on the Cards–hideous call. No way was that roughing

7. Roughing the holder on the Cards–it wasn’t intentional, but the rules are clear. That is a foul.

8. Fitzgerald’s first TD–he dropped the damn ball! I can’t believe that Madden, Tomlin, or anyone else in the stadium saw that. I was on my couch looking for a red challenge flag to throw.

9. Tone’s game winning TD–correct call.

10. No more halo rule in NFL–correct call.

11. Tone’s celebration–should have been a 15 yard penalty. I agree with the rule. High five, a small celebration with your teammates is fine. Don’t be a prick, dance around, and make the other team look foolish. It’s called sportsmanship. Learn it.

[crypto]

@Omniscient

This is the best photo that I’ve found. The blog it’s posted on comes to the wrong conclusion even in the face of the evidence and I understand why people who want to see it that way would. But, when you look at it you can see that the knee is in the grass. The yellow of the pants at the curve of the knee is flattened in the image because it’s within the turf. That is not a “shadow” under the knee, that is a shadow cast from the players above in front of the leg, just like the dozen shadows surrounding it. The fact that it’s the same darkness as all the other shadows pretty convincingly indicates that it’s not from an object a fraction of an inch off the turf but instead from a body part much higher.

You know, this just reaffirms my initial thought that Ben scored. That is a shadow. It’s not his knee in the grass.

The thing that’s amazing is no matter how many times we see it, how many angles, we will never agree. I’m willing to change my mind if I see evidence. I simply don’t see it. Insane? Call me kooky! I cannot see it the way you do. it’s a shadow. I thought it was a shadow last night. I’ve watched it a bunch of times. I was almost convinced he was down from another angle. Your link convinces me that Ben scored.

Not that it matters. The Steelers got the ring.

Oh, and you, sir, are insane if you think the last play was a forward pass. That was one of the only plays I didn’t think was close.

Amazing how our hearts tell us what our eyes are seeing.

You have a lot of anger! I hope you didn’t lose a lot of money.

[Omniscient]

@furt

Dude, you’re right. It’s pretty obvious. Don’t think it’s reviewable, though.

It’s not; but it was right there, out in the open, right in front of the play. It needs to be called.

Ditto the Santonio Holmes illegal celebration. Way to big a thing to ignore, there’s no way it was simply overlooked. It was a conscious decision to eat that flag.

[garygnu]

@Stink Fish Pot

You know, this just reaffirms my initial thought that Ben scored. That is a shadow. It’s not his knee in the grass…

That’s not his knee’s shadow.

[DSYoungEsq]

1. If you are looking at that photo of Roethlisberger short of the end zone, and you think that is the shadow of HIS leg you see, you are really in need of a stiff shot of get real. Whatever shadow you are seeing, you are not seeing his shadow, because the shadow doesn’t converge on his foot, which IS in contact with the ground. But unless he has the most atrophied leg in the NFL, he whole lower leg is in contact with the grass.

Amazing how wanting something to be true will make us think a thing is true, against all evidence.

As for the penultimate play of the game, the ball was jarred loose by the hit before the arm started forward. There is NO way that the upstairs people didn’t take a look at it as soon as it happened; it’s what they are trained to do, it’s what they live to do, it’s their entire raison d’etre. As someone who didn’t want the game to be over over, I wanted it to be an incomplete pass, too, but you can’t argue with the fact that the ball was loose.

Now whether or not that is sufficient to turn it from a forward pass into a fumble is something you have to take up with the NFL. But the NFL seems pretty insistent that it’s the case it’s not a forward pass, and it’s not like the NFL never admits to screwing up calls; they’ve admitted to it in very important games before.

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

@kidchameleon

This is incorrect. The run-off only occurs if the foul stopped the clock. An incomplete pass would stop the clock, thus there would be no run off.

??? Of course, it would not be an incomplete pass if it were actually an ILLEGAL TOUCHING.

And Omniscient, somehow, it was both in Warner’s control AND deflected by Woodley from behind? Pick one or the other, dude, but you can’t have both.

[Omniscient]

@Stink Fish Pot

You know, this just reaffirms my initial thought that Ben scored. That is a shadow. It’s not his knee in the grass.

The thing that’s amazing is no matter how many times we see it, how many angles, we will never agree. I’m willing to change my mind if I see evidence. I simply don’t see it. Insane? Call me kooky! I cannot see it the way you do. it’s a shadow. I thought it was a shadow last night. I’ve watched it a bunch of times. I was almost convinced he was down from another angle. Your link convinces me that Ben scored.

How do you explain the fact that the bottom of his knee is obscured by grass? The shadow simply isn’t in the right spot, the right shape, or of the right density to be of his knee.

I was in a bar with a couple hundred people watching it on about 80 TVs and about 5 80" HD screens and everyone in that bar was convinced it was the right call. Even the rabid Steelers fans conceded it. Mind you this was in Chicago where Cardinals fans were scarce and Steelers fans were thick. They showed it over and over again, there wasn’t any outcry when it was overturned. It was close, yes, but I just don’t get the controversy.

Oh, and you, sir, are insane if you think the last play was a forward pass. That was one of the only plays I didn’t think was close.

Care to explain what you base this on? I’ve explained a couple times precisely why it was a pass in my view and I’ve yet to see anyone point out what I have incorrect.

You have a lot of anger! I hope you didn’t lose a lot of money.

Not angry at all. I’m a Bears fan and I won a hefty chunk of change on the Cards and the Under. I don’t have a pony in the race, but I get annoyed with bad officiating and seemingly partisan apologizing. More than anything I’m about fed up with the terrible officiating that we saw everywhere this season.

[davidw]

@Omniscient

Turn the sound off a watch it again. At the 26 second mark you see the ball reach the back of Warner’s wind up. Woodley at that moment hits his arm and the ball. Now, watch the play after Woodley hits him, at any point does the ball leave Warner’s hand? No, it does not. Warner drives the ball forward through the contact making it a pass. In order for it to be a fumble the ball has to be loose before his hand goes forward, and it definitely wasn’t.

I’ve been watching it without the sound all day. We’ll just have to disagree. The ball is loose before Warner is able to drive his arm forward.

[Omniscient]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

And Omniscient, somehow, it was both in Warner’s control AND deflected by Woodley from behind? Pick one or the other, dude, but you can’t have both.

Says who? Balls are defected on passes all the time. QBs are hit as they thrwo all the time. In every case that means the ball is considered deflected, that’s precisely how O-Lineman end up with legal receptions.

[crypto]

@DSYoungEsq

1. If you are looking at that photo of Roethlisberger short of the end zone, and you think that is the shadow of HIS leg you see, you are really in need of a stiff shot of get real. Whatever shadow you are seeing, you are not seeing his shadow, because the shadow doesn’t converge on his foot, which IS in contact with the ground. But unless he has the most atrophied leg in the NFL, he whole lower leg is in contact with the grass.

Amazing how wanting something to be true will make us think a thing is true, against all evidence.

You got that right! I give up. Maybe I am insane.

what the hell are you goofy people seeing? Why can’t I see it? AUGH!

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

@Omniscient

Watch this video, pause it at the 12 second mark. See Hightower’s head snapping forward? See the hands square in the nameplate?

Uh, you linked to the Warner fumble. However, I have the non-clip on the DVR. I’ve watched it. The two are looking at each other as Hightower tries to angle in for the tackle. Woodley first engages him square in the shoulder, and Harrison cuts under the block.

You are simply lying.

I’ll assume that you are simply in the throes of sorrow, and not take this as offensive. It probably also explains why you see these plays as strangely as you do.

[Gangster_Octopus]

Overall, I thought the officiating was fine. Was every call correct…probably not, but nothing egregious in my mind.

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

@Omniscient

Says who? Balls are defected on passes all the time. QBs are hit as they thrwo all the time. In every case that means the ball is considered deflected, that’s precisely how O-Lineman end up with legal receptions.

After it leaves Warner’s hand, the first thing it touches is the Cardinals lineman. Either it left under Warner’s control or it did not. Pick one, but it doesn’t matter, because the answer is the same.

End of Game.

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

@Omniscient

How can I take you seriously when you don’t even know the rules?

I do. You don’t.

[Chronos]

You are patently insane and biased if you think Roethlisberger was in the endzone on that first non-TD. The replay could not have been more crystal clear and the officials made the correct call. There’s really no room for argument on that, the replay angle was flawless.

Eh, I’m a Steelers fan, and I admit that he didn’t quite make it, but it took me about 4 or 5 replays to be convinced of that. I don’t think it’s a sign of insanity at all if someone wasn’t quite convinced, because it was in fact very close.