# Discussion of Pit rules **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 27, 2002, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051 "2002-07-27T02:18:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2002, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/141 "2002-07-30T21:52:09Z")
Sorry about the spacing. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2002, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/142 "2002-07-30T22:31:35Z")
If you think someone’s being a jerk by using those, bring it to the moderators attention – problem solved. If enough people disagree with you, then you’ve applied the “reasonable person” test, haven’t you? FWIW, redneck and fundie are trivial – if these are defined as ‘hate,’ expect to see a _ton_ of words make the definition list. Moron? Brain-Damaged? Stupid? Slow? Incompetent? Hey, that’s hate speech! I say, whatever. If we can’t figure out when someone’s being a jerk, explicit laws will not help us – they will just turn our now somewhat arbitrary process into an arbitrary but legalistic process. Certainly, we can all use a better overall definition of hate speech. Sometimes hate is an honest emotion. A bunch of hicks break into your house because you and your wife are an interracial couple. You wouldn’t allow venting about the Trailer Trash that broke into your house? Or how about when William Pierce died – isn’t he a fucking cracker bastard? I think unless if the hateful speech is uncalled for and is hateful towards immutable properties of a group or person here, our moderation scheme suffices. I haven’t seen rampant hatemongering on this board – why do we want to crimp the unfettered emotions and arguments that make this board so wonderful to be a part of? ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/143 "2002-07-31T02:09:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace0Spades \* > **A bunch of hicks break into your house because you and your wife are an interracial couple. You wouldn’t allow venting about the Trailer Trash that broke into your house?** Define for me, please, what is “trailer trash”? You can’t buy a real house in my part of the country for under $100,000 and if people don’t have that kind of buy-in but still don’t want to live in an apartment, they buy trailers. Does that make them “trash”? How so? Or rephrase it: “A bunch of inner-city gangsta trash break into your house because they don’t like a white person living in ‘their’ neighborhood. You wouldn’t allow venting about the niggers that broke into your house?” Sounds a little different now, doesn’t it? Vent. But avoid the hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/144 "2002-07-31T02:36:18Z")
[quotes] “A bunch of inner-city gangsta trash break into your house because they don’t like a white person living in ‘their’ neighborhood. You wouldn’t allow venting about the niggers that broke into your house?” Sounds a little different now, doesn’t it? [/quote] Depends. Are you equating “white trash” with “gangsta trash” or with “niggers”? If the first, then you’ve just proved yourself wrong, as I don’t think that “gangsta trash” could be considered hate speech. If the second, the I would argue that, given the history and context of the word “nigger,” it cannot be compared in any valid and meaningful way with “white trash.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/145 "2002-07-31T02:38:50Z")
Stupid “s”. ---
**Author:** ![Wikkit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wikkit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wikkit)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/146 "2002-07-31T06:48:04Z")
Many people have been posting about the hate speech thing, and **Kal** added that along with the standard things like race and sexual orientation, that what a poster does for a living should be part of the banned hate speech. Others have mentioned ‘fundie’ and such words as being ban-worthy. I disagree completely. I think the only kinds of statements that should be verboten as ‘hate’ are ones based on a characteristic that the person can’t change. People shouldn’t be insulted for their race, or sexual orientation, or even their country of birth. However, people choose what religion they are and how they practice it. They’ve chosen what job they took. A person may be born to Japanese Baal-worshiping used car salesmen, but at many points they had to chose to continue worshiping Baal and selling used cars. They’re still going to be Japanese, though. Essentially, why should a telemarketer or fundie be protected from criticism for their actions and views? Continuing in the thread, non-sequiturs, hijacks, and pull-up-a-chairs: They all drive me nuts. If you want to say that the thread is stupid and the OP has the intellect of a warm pile of pus, say that, don’t encode it into something that you think everone understands but no one does. This thread was the first time I heard that the 'pull up a chair’s were attempts to diffuse a thread. They often seem to do the obvious, making it harder for a poster holding a difficult or wrong position to concede any points. Sometimes it looks like a pre-“I told you so”. Hijacking a thread that you think is going in a bad direction is the ultimate in ‘I wanna be a mod’. If you have nothing to say, please don’t say so. ---
**Author:** ![Wikkit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wikkit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wikkit)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/147 "2002-07-31T06:53:20Z")
Seem to do the opposite, not the obvious. If they did the obvious, I’d have no problem with them. If I wasn’t working second shift, I wouldn’t be randomly substituting words, either. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/148 "2002-07-31T07:03:15Z")
**Wikkit** , just to clarify because my first post is on page one and some posters may not read it. I didn’t say that a person’s job _should_ be classed as hate speech, but that it _could_ be: > [@](#): > > You could also add what a poster does for a living in there as well. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/149 "2002-07-31T08:24:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wikkit \* > **Essentially, why should a telemarketer or fundie be protected from criticism for their actions and views?** They shouldn’t be; however, I feel there is a distinct difference between criticism and hate speech. As far as socioeconomic class, the myth that you can take any job you want and make all the money you want is just that. For example: John Doe lives in an area that he and generation upon generation of his family have lived in all their lives. He has family here, and strong emotional ties to the area. However, job opportunities here are pretty limited and consequently, so is his income. Sure, he could move hundreds or thousands of miles away to make more money, but he’s chosen the emotional and spiritual benefits of staying where he is. Does that make him “trash”? I don’t know how many more ways I can possibly restate it, but _ **there is a difference between criticism and hate speech** _. “I think these people are deluded in their beliefs, and I think some of their actions and slogans are wildly humorous,” is different than “All fundies are stupid!” ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/150 "2002-07-31T10:59:02Z")
I agree with the prohibition on “hate speech”. By and large. More or less. But if any argument can cause me to reconsider, it is this: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by musicguy \* > \*\* > > This is the only thing on the list that bothers me. Personally, I think it is valuable to know if someone “hates”. We are here to fight ignorance, right? Can’t fight something that is hidden. > > If I might be allowed a quick story. When I first got here, I was very intolerant of religious folk. I had an axe to grind because I am gay. I posted a few things that might be construed as “hate oriented”. As a result, I got flamed royally and deservedly so. I was forced to confront my prejudices and I realized that I needed to take a harder look at what I really believed and what kind of person I wanted to be. I have long since abandoned my beliefs and have found many Christians on the board that I really respect. To me, that made all the flames worthwhile. I’m a happier, better adjusted person now. > \*\* I just didn’t want that to get lost in the shuffle. ---
**Author:** ![seawitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@seawitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seawitch)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/151 "2002-07-31T20:53:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wikkit \* > \*\*Hijacking a thread that you think is going in a bad direction is the ultimate in ‘I wanna be a mod’. > \*\* God forbid. Those poor bastards have a long and thankless task. Speaking only for myself, hijacking a thread doesn’t mean I want to be a mod any more than the time I stopped a bar fight means I wish I were a cop. However, since there seems to be a great deal of irritation over the meaning of such posts, I’ll try to refrain. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/152 "2002-07-31T22:50:36Z")
I want an option to automatically ignore posts with ‘ignore list’ in them; can we have that? ---
**Author:** ![Tabeitha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b3f665/32.png) [@Tabeitha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabeitha)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/153 "2002-08-01T00:22:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace0Spades \* > \*\*Whoa! Back on the parody horse: > > Coldfire just swatted down a limp **but obvious** parody with this… > > Doesn’t this completely underscore my concern about making parodies into GD’s – complete with cites and proof? How the hell was **Kang & Kodos** supposed to respond to this? Say “Yes, it was a parody, and it’s about Esprix?” That was _obvious_, it was in the title of the thread! Now we have to prove a substantiated case – what does that mean? And specific links – earlier, WRT to me, we said a single link would suffice. Can’t those lacking the reference simply _click on the nearest thread that says Esprix?_ Would we be requiring the same evidence if K&K simply called Esprix an attention whore directly? I think we need to awake to the possibility of serious over-reaction and micromanagement. The K&K thing was dying on it’s own – to what purpose are we locking these threads? \*\* I opened the thread in question here, and I didn’t have a clue (still don’t) what was being parodied. I did a search for recent threads by Esprix, I can tell you it wasn’t one of the first three that came up. Posting a link takes a minute of time and adds to everyones enjoyment. I find the “hate speech” rule to be scary. It’s way to generic a term for us all to agree upon. It allows a slippery slope. I also think the current Don’t be a jerk rule is enough to cover this. The lawn chair thing annoys me. When I open a thread I’m interested in and all I see are \ posts, I don’t usually come back to read it later. Same with to many posts that are just smilies. It wouldn’t be so bad if it were kept at just one or two posters doing this, but sometimes it seems as if there are nothing but a page of this. I don’t use the ignor list. ---
**Author:** ![Wikkit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wikkit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wikkit)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/154 "2002-08-01T05:38:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by seawitch \* > \*\*God forbid. Those poor bastards have a long and thankless task. Speaking only for myself, hijacking a thread doesn’t mean I want to be a mod any more than the time I stopped a bar fight means I wish I were a cop. > > However, since there seems to be a great deal of irritation over the meaning of such posts, I’ll try to refrain. \*\* I didn’t mean general hjacking, that happens all the time. The board’s discussion can’t be perfectly linear and would look like those stories written by a group of people where you can only read the last sentence written before you write yours if it was. Branches good, hijacking OK, hijacking totally OT just to fuck with the thread bad. _The reply I wrote last night at 3:30 and then found that the server was down:_ Thanks for the clarifications, **Kal** and **Squish**. If that rule is kept, it’ll probably be just like the no being a jerk and no direct links to nasty pictures rules: interpreted by the mods as they see fit. That’d be disastrous at some places, but seems to work fairly well here. I guess we’ll have to wait and see if it’s truly a new rule or just the **Bod** writing down the unwritten, and how it’s enforced. I guess my only real objection to these rules, or any rules set down here, is that it increases the probability of some of the locals giving mod-style warnings when they don’t like someone or are arguing with someone. On the other hand, the rules do need to written and not just ‘common knowledge’, since not everyone lurks long enough to know the common. Last, but not least, I realize that one of the chose should be a choose. I’m really not trying to annoy the people who put that on the periodic grammar/spelling peeve threads. At least I didn’t let loose a lose. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/155 "2002-08-02T00:38:22Z")
The lawn chair rule is quite appropriate as an unspoken code of conduct but nobody should ever be banned or bullied around just for pulling up a lawn chair. The Parody rule … again, there’s no reason to come down on someone with both feet just because they’re clumsy, overly esoteric satirists. People like to express themselves with their humor; if they’re not funny, then nobody laughs. Laughing = funny. I agree with the ignore rule in the general, playground sense that publicly labeling someone as an untouchable is wrong. I qualify that by saying that it should be alright for people to recommend that if someone, hypothetically, makes you angry (or if you think they are relentless nattering idiots in love with their own voice, etc.) then it’s perfectly normal human behavior to try and avoid unnecessary contact or conversation with that person. It’s like your mother used to say: “Well, if they say those things, then they’re not your friends.” I agree with the hate speech rule, too, in a common-PC way - PROVIDED I can still talk all the shit I want about these kids today (with their what and their hey), barking dogs at night, right-wing corporate fascist conspiracies, idiot drivers, racists, hypocrites, the ignorant etc. etc. etc. People are encouraged to contact the moderators via e-mail if they have some kind of problem on the boards. I suggest the moderators experiment with the same. I think some kind of a warning by e-mail - specifically to longtime posters, but newbies too - could go a lot farther in many situations than a rebuke or lockdown which are very public gestures and, as we have seen, can sometimes be interpreted by some as an arbitrary and knee-jerk reaction by an ill-tempered, unthanked moderator. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/156 "2002-08-02T02:52:25Z")
I didn’t want to bring this to the Pit, but seeing the way things have been going today, I can’t see how tossing my onion into the pot will make it worse. Yesterday, I posted [this: “I got my husband stoned! For the first time!”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128479) in MPSIMS. Now, I knew that this was a sensitive subject. I typed out the OP the night before and sent copies to the four MPSIMS mods: **Arnold Winkelried, Cajun Man, Coldfire and UncleBeer**. I got an e-mail from **UncleBeer** that gave me permission to proceed. He included the phrase “CC: MPSIMS mods”, so I assumed, pehaps wrongly, that he was speaking for all of them. But at any rate, **I did have permission from a mod to broach this subject**. Just under three hours later, the thread was closed by **Eutychus**. At the time, I did not wish to call him out in the Pit, and I would never post an unfocused whine under any circumstances. I forwarded **UncleBeer** ’s e-mail to him, and added that I was curious why “four mods do not add up to a quorum”. I have not yet received a reply. I fully understand that **Eutychus** , along with all the other mods, is preoccupied with the summit conference they are conducting. I have, however, changed my mind about going public. This is still not a rant, but since we’re discussing board rules and policies, I’m taking this opportunity to say what I would have said had **Eutychus** replied: If talk about drugs, even discussion of drug **use** that makes no mention of buying, selling, or manufacturing, and even if it’s balanced with the (IMO) sensible advice I gave Mr. Rilch, and by extension, the board, such as “Don’t smoke and drive”, and if the mere **words** “weed”, “pot”, “high”, “chronic”, et.al. are enough to justify locking a thread, **then it should be clearly stated as an official rule**. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/157 "2002-08-02T11:42:34Z")
**Rilch** : IANAE (I am not a Euty 😉 ) but my guess is that it was closed 'cause it was inches away from becoming a pile-on. Lookit some of the comments. I’d guess it’d be pit-worthy in maybe another 15 posts, tops, the way things were degenerating. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/158 "2002-08-02T11:55:24Z")
That may be. I’d still like to hear it from him, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/159 "2002-08-02T21:11:01Z")
All right, I heard from him. The mods are still discussing drugs and vulgarity. I mean, they’re discussing what the **policy** should be regarding drugs and vulgarity! (Sounds like quite a party, eh what?) ---
**Author:** ![Wikkit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wikkit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wikkit)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051/160 "2002-08-17T07:02:09Z")
Will this thread be a perma-sticky, or be downgraded once the mod stuff is finalized and discussed? Seems like a waste of space if it isn’t generating any more comments. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-of-pit-rules/121051.md?page=9)